Scenario time

[barres]

This situation presented itself to me last Friday. I want to see how you guys and gals would have handled yourselves.

I took my family to the Houston Zoo. The zoo is located pretty much in downtown Houston, in Hermann Park. The property is owned by the city of Houston, but the zoo is operated by Houston Zoo, Inc, a private entity.

As I neared the zoo, I noticed several school buses parked along the side of the street. We were rather close to the zoo, but not very far from the Children's Museum and the Museum of Natural History, too.

Approaching the zoo, I saw no 30.06 notices, nor did I see any evidence that the kids from the school buses were in the zoo. I was carrying my EDC and a back-up at the time (we were in downtown Houston).

Would you have carried into the zoo or secured your firearm(s)?

[nitrogen]

Yes.

[Kalrog]

A school group being there at the same time you are there does not make you a participant in a school sponsored event.

And any 30.06 postings would be unenforceable as it is owned by a governmental entity.

[45 4 life]

It also says intentionally or knowingly. Unless you are there with the school sponsored event you have no way of knowing. If I were part of the group I would ofcourse not be carrying.

[shootthesheet]

CHL holders are only restricted if the school has total control over the zoo. So, if the entire zoo is used as a school activity then we cannot enter. With this, we should have notice by the fact the people selling tickets won't let us in.

This is no different than if a schools sports team stops at the local "stop and rob" for after activity snacks. They do not control the building and we are in no wrong by shopping there at the same time.

The main point, in my limited understanding, is that the building or "fenced" area must be totally controlled by the school. Malls, Wal Marts, zoos, should not affect our ability to carry. That said, there are exceptions to where they post signs and that must be worked out by the legislature I guess.

[pt145ss]

CHL holders are only restricted if the school has total control over the zoo. So, if the entire zoo is used as a school activity then we cannot enter. With this, we should have notice by the fact the people selling tickets won't let us in.

This is no different than if a schools sports team stops at the local "stop and rob" for after activity snacks. They do not control the building and we are in no wrong by shopping there at the same time.

The main point, in my limited understanding, is that the building or "fenced" area must be totally controlled by the school. Malls, Wal Marts, zoos, should not affect our ability to carry. That said, there are exceptions to where they post signs and that must be worked out by the legislature I guess.

I don't think I ever saw anything saying that the school sponsored had to be in complete control of the grounds or premises. I would look at it in the sense of knowing (or had reason to know) that a school sponsored event was going on at the place in question. I think “totally controlled� is not a well defined term. For example, My child has a school sponsored event like a lock down at Austin Park and Pizza…yes they are the only ones there at the park but are they in control of the park? I would think not. I would think that Austin Park and Pizza's employees are in control…no one else. So here is the scenario: I go to pick my child up from the lock down and I go inside…If I carry, am I in violation? I would think so…not because the school event has control of the facility but because I knew or had reason to know that a school sponsored event was taking place.

Another scenario: I take my family to the Bob bullock museum. I carry because I have no indication that I should not carry. Half way through the museum I see a bunch of kids walking in a group…it could be a school event…but then again…it might not be. Am I in violation? I would think not because I have no way of knowing if the kids I saw were a part of a school sponsored event or not.

To answer the OPs question…I most likely would carry as I have now way of knowing (nor had any reason to know) that there was a school sponsored event at the zoo.

[bpet]

Yep. I'd of carried.

I don't believe that there is a law that I'd have broken (argue all you want, that's why there are lawyers) and zoo's are getting to be mighty dangerous places lately.

With recent evens, I'm not sure my 300 H&H might not be a better choice than my XD40 though.

[bdickens]

I've been mulling this over for some time now, and I think I know how to end all the confusion about can carry here, can't carry there, does this sign meet the requirements of the law, am I going to carry past a "gunbusters" sign or just take my business elsewhere, and all the other myriad confusions about CHL: GET RID OF 30.06! GET RID OF IT!

There is no reason for preventing a law-abiding citizen from going to a place that it is legal for him to be and engaging in lawful activity. None whatsoever. If you ask me it's Unconstitutional discrimination, pure and simple. If I can't put up a sign that says "No Blacks Allowed," and you can't put up a sign that says "No Jews Allowed," then no one should be able to put up a sign that says, in effect, "No CHLs Allowed."

No place that is open to the public should be able to keep CHLs out of their establishment. There should be only one place in the whole state that prohibits lawfully carried firearms, and that is a bar.

[seamusTX]

... zoo's are getting to be mighty dangerous places lately.

With recent evens, I'm not sure my 300 H&H might not be a better choice than my XD40 though.

Only if you're drunk and bait a large predator.

I've been mulling this over for some time now, and I think I know how to end all the confusion about can carry here, can't carry there, does this sign meet the requirements of the law, am I going to carry past a "gunbusters" sign or just take my business elsewhere, and all the other myriad confusions about CHL: GET RID OF 30.06!

We're talking about 46.03, not 30.06.

30.06 is not going to go away. Business owners are a more effective lobby than CHL holders and probably always will be.

On the subject of the post, the word "grounds" is not clearly defined. Clearly a sports stadium fits the definition. Clearly a five-square-mile park does not. When a law is vague, the benefit of the doubt must go to someone who is accused of violating it.

No CHL holder has ever been arrested for carrying in the vicinity of a school group in a public place, AFAIK, mainly because concealed means concealed.

- Jim

[Penn]

I've been mulling this over for some time now, and I think I know how to end all the confusion about can carry here, can't carry there, does this sign meet the requirements of the law, am I going to carry past a "gunbusters" sign or just take my business elsewhere, and all the other myriad confusions about CHL: GET RID OF 30.06! GET RID OF IT!

There is no reason for preventing a law-abiding citizen from going to a place that it is legal for him to be and engaging in lawful activity. None whatsoever. If you ask me it's Unconstitutional discrimination, pure and simple. If I can't put up a sign that says "No Blacks Allowed," and you can't put up a sign that says "No Jews Allowed," then no one should be able to put up a sign that says, in effect, "No CHLs Allowed."

No place that is open to the public should be able to keep CHLs out of their establishment. There should be only one place in the whole state that prohibits lawfully carried firearms, and that is a bar.

30.06 isn't the problem as seamus pointed out. It's the poorly worded law that doesn't specifically address the intent of the legislature as far as what "any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted" means.

I think every business should have the right to ban weapons if they see fit, even if the only people who are going to listen are the law-abiding ones.

[bpet]

... zoo's are getting to be mighty dangerous places lately.

With recent evens, I'm not sure my 300 H&H might not be a better choice than my XD40 though.

Only if you're drunk and bait a large predator.

Or unless you just happen to be at the Dallas zoo and the gorilla gets out.

[seamusTX]

You can get into places a gorilla can't.

- Jim

[jimlongley]

Yup!

[seamusTX]

Now, chimps are a different matter. They're smaller than an an adult human being, agile, and strong enough to tear off your arm and beat you to death with it.

- Jim