Another target practice tragedy

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frankie_the_yankee
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Another target practice tragedy

Post by frankie_the_yankee »

Check out the article below from Saturday's Chron.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nb/ ... 69129.html

May 9, 2008, 11:38PM
Stray bullet finds a tragic mark
Two charged after Conroe campground resident is killed


By BILL MURPHY
Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle

RESOURCES
Accustomed to hearing gunfire from those taking target practice in the distance, Perry Hook hardly felt in danger when he sat down outside his recreational trailer to relax while his wife cooked dinner Thursday evening.

Even as he lay dying outside his trailer door, he didn't realize that he had been shot and that there was a link between the gunfire coming from a stand of trees about 400 yards away and his suddenly feeling so ill, a neighbor and relatives said.

"He kept on trying to raise his head. I stuck a pillow under it. He said two or three times, 'What happened? What happened?' " said Julie Russ, his next-door neighbor.

Hook, 58, was shot in the stomach while sitting outside his trailer at a KOA campground on Texas 105 about 8:15 p.m., the Montgomery County Sheriff's Office said.

Eliseo Maldonado, 23, of Conroe, and Gregg Lamon, 32, of Montgomery, were charged with criminally negligent homicide and booked into the Montgomery County Jail, the Montgomery County Sheriff's Office said. Maldonado is being held on $25,000 bail. Lamon's bail status was unavailable.

Investigators believe that one of the two men taking target practice with a rifle similar to an M-16 fired the shot accidentally, said Hook's son, Perry Dan Hook, a deputy in the Harris County Sheriff's Department.

Maldonado and Lamon were shooting on private land, and the woods screened their view of the campground, the son said.

Shooting went on

As Russ and Hook's wife, Helen, scrambled to call 911 and comfort Hook, the target shooting continued, and Russ worried that she, her daughter, who was hiding in the family's trailer, or Hook's wife might be shot, Russ said.

The target shooters didn't realize that a man had been fatally wounded until police arrived on their property, Hook's son said.

Montgomery County Sheriff's deputies found Hook suffering from a gunshot wound to the abdomen. He was taken by ambulance to Conroe Regional Hospital where he was pronounced dead.

Russ and Hook's relatives wondered why the men were shooting at targets so near a campground, homes and the growing number of businesses that have opened along Texas 105 near Lake Conroe recently.

They shot target practice so frequently that Russ concluded that the site, adjacent to the campground at 19751 Highway 105 West, was a gun range, not private land.

"You heard them shooting all the time," she said. "This was totally uncalled for."

Mike Gast, corporate spokesman for KOA, said he had noted the increasing development around the campground while visiting it about a month ago. He questioned whether it should be legal to take target practice near homes and a campground.

Hook's son said his dad and other relatives worried that he might be hurt on the job as a deputy.

"Here it was my dad who has something happen to him," he said.

Hook had been sitting outside the trailer in a plastic lawn chair. In front of him lay a sloping meadow. His wife was in their small trailer that had been their residence after he leased their home in The Woodlands.

Took job at church

Hook was a superintendent at a remodeling job at a Methodist church in Montgomery. He took the job in part so he could live near two of his grandsons, his son said.

Born in Louisiana, Hook lived in Missouri before moving with his family to Houston in 1976.

He left school before finishing the 10th grade but had a good mind and mastered skills needed in the construction trade, his son said.

"He was just a hard worker. He worked every day of his life," his son said.

Funeral arrangements were being made Friday. A visitation will be held Tuesday in Montgomery. He will be buried in a family plot in Moss Bluff, La.

Besides his wife and son, Hook leaves a daughter, Sherri, and two other sons, Christopher and Sam.

Chronicle writer Jennifer Leahy contributed.
What is it about, "Know your target and what is beyond.", that some people do not seem to be able to understand?

Apparently someone was practicing with an AR type rifle when the stray bullet struck the guy. He never knew what hit him. According to the story, all he knew was that he suddenly felt very ill, ans was asking, "What happened?" when he passed away.

How can we get people to make sure they have a good backstop to shoot against? It is all that difficult to teach people that a stand of trees is not a proper bullet stop?

A few years ago there was that little kid in Hays County. Now this. And you know the gun banners swoop down on incidents like this like the vultures they are, exploiting avery last drop of emotion that they can.
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dukalmighty
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Re: Another target practice tragedy

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Somebody on another forum was asking if they thought it was okay to shoot on 2 acres with a stand of trees for a backstop and I suggested they build a back stop out of railroad ties capable of stopping any calibre they would shoot,for the very reason mentioned in the story you cannot count on a buncha trees to stop a bullet ,the bullet may even ricochet in another direction,what trees can do is block the view of antbody or anything on the other side.The fact remains you are still responsible for you're rounds and where they go
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frankie_the_yankee
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Re: Another target practice tragedy

Post by frankie_the_yankee »

I've got 7.5 acres. I rented an earthmover and pushed up a berm to shoot against.
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Mike1951
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Re: Another target practice tragedy

Post by Mike1951 »

Just something to keep in mind and it won't apply to all counties.

The state gave the authority to counties to regulate shooting, IF THE COUNTY CHOOSES, on less than 10 acre tracts.
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TexasComputerDude
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Re: Another target practice tragedy

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dukalmighty wrote:Somebody on another forum was asking if they thought it was okay to shoot on 2 acres with a stand of trees for a backstop and I suggested they build a back stop out of railroad ties capable of stopping any calibre they would shoot,for the very reason mentioned in the story you cannot count on a buncha trees to stop a bullet ,the bullet may even ricochet in another direction,what trees can do is block the view of antbody or anything on the other side.The fact remains you are still responsible for you're rounds and where they go

Would a large mound of dirt suffice for a backstop? I usually shoot with a backdrop of trees (and a few miles between houses." I'm pretty confident that my .45 bullets won't make the trip to the neighbors house but would like to make sure.
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Re: Another target practice tragedy

Post by dihappy »

TexasComputerDude wrote:
dukalmighty wrote:Somebody on another forum was asking if they thought it was okay to shoot on 2 acres with a stand of trees for a backstop and I suggested they build a back stop out of railroad ties capable of stopping any calibre they would shoot,for the very reason mentioned in the story you cannot count on a buncha trees to stop a bullet ,the bullet may even ricochet in another direction,what trees can do is block the view of antbody or anything on the other side.The fact remains you are still responsible for you're rounds and where they go

Would a large mound of dirt suffice for a backstop? I usually shoot with a backdrop of trees (and a few miles between houses." I'm pretty confident that my .45 bullets won't make the trip to the neighbors house but would like to make sure.

:eek6

I would never shoot with only a backdrop of trees. Just because its a few miles between houses doesnt mean aint nobody wandering around back there.

Rent a dozer and build up a berm and/or built up a wall of railroad ties over that.
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Re: Another target practice tragedy

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My wife loves the show, "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition." I saw the opening of last night's episode, and, as part of the demolition of the old house, they had some "Minutemen" (this was in Mass.) shoot the house with cap and ball rifles. They showed the windows breaking as the balls went through. Some of the camera shots showed that it would be easy for shots to go completely through the house impeded only by a window on either side. I could only shake my head and wonder how they could have made that safe. I could see nothing through the windows that would have stopped the bullets excepts for a wooden fence.

And in Mass., no less. Not the worst gun laws in the US, but far from the best.
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Re: Another target practice tragedy

Post by frankie_the_yankee »

TexasComputerDude wrote: Would a large mound of dirt suffice for a backstop? I usually shoot with a backdrop of trees (and a few miles between houses." I'm pretty confident that my .45 bullets won't make the trip to the neighbors house but would like to make sure.
A few miles is a long way. Most bullets will be on the ground by then.

A large mound of dirt will stop any bullet. The trick is, is it large enough that you won't shoot over or around it accidently?
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Re: Another target practice tragedy

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Would a large mound of dirt suffice for a backstop? I usually shoot with a backdrop of trees (and a few miles between houses." I'm pretty confident that my .45 bullets won't make the trip to the neighbors house but would like to make sure.
A backdrop of trees is NOT a backstop. That is very irresponsible to shoot blindly into the woods given you don't know what is in the woods at all times. The fact that the neighbors may be miles away is great, but you don't know who is in the woods.

Would a large mound of dirt suffice? Maybe. Is it wide enough? That is why most folks use berms and not individual mounds.
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Re: Another target practice tragedy

Post by TxRVer »

I'm curious. What made this accident a criminal offense. If the two men had been legally deer hunting and had accidentally shot someone, would it have been criminal?

What kind of backstop do you use when deer hunting in the woods?
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Re: Another target practice tragedy

Post by flb_78 »

Double Naught Spy wrote:A backdrop of trees is NOT a backstop. That is very irresponsible to shoot blindly into the woods given you don't know what is in the woods at all times. The fact that the neighbors may be miles away is great, but you don't know who is in the woods.

Would a large mound of dirt suffice? Maybe. Is it wide enough? That is why most folks use berms and not individual mounds.
If it's my property and there are "no trespassing" signs and it's a couple miles till the end of my property, then they shouldn't of been standing there on my property in my wooded area.
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Re: Another target practice tragedy

Post by KBCraig »

TxRVer wrote:What kind of backstop do you use when deer hunting in the woods?
You're supposed to use a deer. :mrgreen:
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Re: Another target practice tragedy

Post by asleepatthereel »

Ive always wanted to have enough land for my own range. Every time I have though about it and pictured it in my mind, it has berms for backstops. Without proper backstops, you are just shooting in a field, and who knows where the bullets will end up. And it wouldnt really be a proper range without backstops at 25,50,75,100, and 150 yards, right? Thats my dream anyway.

As far as deer hunting goes, the leases I have been on do not allow stalk hunting for this very reason. I know their are places to go that people stalk on, but I would wager that those places are the ones the hunters get shot on. I always make sure where the other stands are at and dont even consider shooting in that direction. I would rather let that 20 point 300B&C buck walk than to accidently shoot another hunter, especially considering I know all the hunters on my lease and they are like brothers to me. Even if were just a 'mear flesh wound', it would be hard to live with, and hard to live down. I feel sorry for all involved. A little lees for the shooters, who had to have known the RV park was there, and made the fatal assumption that the trees would stop the bullets.

Of course the media had to say they were shooting rifles 'similar' to M-16s. What exactly is similar to an M-16? Surely they werent firing full auto M16s or they would have hyped the story even more. It leads one to believe it was an AR15, AKA Evil Black Rifle, but similar could mean any gun that fires .223 be it a semi or bolt.

Its sad, but they should have been more responsible, and now they will pay for their assumption, and someone is left without a father and husband.
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Re: Another target practice tragedy

Post by frankie_the_yankee »

TxRVer wrote: I'm curious. What made this accident a criminal offense.
The fact that they did not know what was beyond their target probably constitutes some level of criminal negligence.

IANAL. The DA, GJ, and lawyers are going to have to sort it out.

IMO, the guy burns in this case.
TxRVer wrote: If the two men had been legally deer hunting and had accidentally shot someone, would it have been criminal?
Your question is very broad. In some circumstances it could be criminal, in others not.
TxRVer wrote: What kind of backstop do you use when deer hunting in the woods?
Quite frequently, the ground serves as a backstop. I'm not a hunter, but aren't deer frequently hunted from tree stands?

And FWIW, I wouldn't spend 2 seconds trying to make any excuses for what happened here. To paraphrase an old saying, "Your RKBA ends where my belly begins."
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Re: Another target practice tragedy

Post by DoubleJ »

frankie_the_yankee wrote: To paraphrase an old saying, "Your RKBA ends where my belly begins."
some of us, that could be a pretty big belly, too!
FWIW, IIRC, AFAIK, FTMP, IANAL. YMMV.
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