CHL Holder wins again!

[dac1842]

Houston Chronicle is reporting that a robbery suspect approached a guy in southwest Houston and demanded money. As the suspect was walking away he dropped some of the stolen loot. He turned to pick up the cash and the victim, who has a CHL fired 3 rounds into the suspects chest, he was DOA at the scene.
Another fine example of CHL laws at work.

[SC1903A3]

Here's the link to the article.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5801033.html

[boomerang]

Why can't the Chronicle put 2+2 together?

The problem and their answers. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/edi ... 87388.html

One example of a much better answer. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5801033.html

[sar]

I realilze it's legal to shoot to protect property now, but how many here would NOT shoot except to protect life?
I'm not judging, I'm just curious. I doubt I would use deadly force to protect my wallet, house, car(unless daughter was in car seat of course) etc.

[Crossfire]

I realilze it's legal to shoot to protect property now, but how many here would NOT shoot except to protect life?

Whether you would shoot over property is not a black and white issue, and depends a WHOLE lot on the situation.

Say, I'm an upper middle class person and you steal my wallet that contains my walking around, spending money. Would I shoot you? Probably not.

Now say, I'm a laborer, in this guy's case, a roofer. Say I just got paid for the job I just finished. My wallet contains all the cash I have, and all that is keeping my family fed until I finish another job. You steal my wallet. Would I shoot to try to prevent you from leaving with my property? What do you think?

[frankie_the_yankee]

From the info given in the article, this looks like a good shoot. The guy got the drop on the BG and he did what he did.

I think he will be no billed. Given the clearance rate for this type of crime, what is the guy's reasonable belief that his property could be "recovered by other means"? Not much of a chance of that, IMO.

Would I have shot the guy? It's hard to say without being there.

[Briankey]

Now that's what I'm talking about, the ONLY way to stop crime, is to Kill it.
Wonder if this drives the Anti-gun bleeding hearts crazy?.

[Charles L. Cotton]

On the issue of shooting to protect property, I'd like to point out that the difference between a robbery and a murder is about 3 to 5 pounds of trigger pull. Often it's difficult if not impossible to determine if an attacker only wants the money. Many years ago, the victim wasn't routinely murdered to eliminate a witness; now it's common practice.

If a person sees a thief fleeing from his home or car, then it might be a little clearer that it truly is "only" a theft or burglary, but when it's a personal attack at kissing-close distance, things are far less clear. My personal policy is that I will not wait to see if the armed person who attacked me will be benevolent and let me or my family live. All doubts will be resolved in favor of the innocent victims. If it's a situation where I'm 100% sure it's "only" a property crime, well then I think llwatson's analysis is very appropriate, but I wouldn't second-guess anyone's decision.

Chas.

[Keith B]

If they want my property only, not worth shooting over, but when a gun gets pointed at me or my family, or I think is about to be, all bets are off.

[boomerang]

An earlier version of the story said that the robber stopped walking away and turned around and pointed the gun at the victim again, and that was when the victim shot the robber.

I don't know why the Chronicle decided to alter their story to leave out that detail.

[ghostrider]

On the issue of shooting to protect property, I'd like to point out that the difference between a robbery and a murder is about 3 to 5 pounds of trigger pull. Often it's difficult if not impossible to determine if an attacker only wants the money. Many years ago, the victim wasn't routinely murdered to eliminate a witness; now it's common practice.

I think that's a very important point. Another is issue is if the bad guy takes your wallet, he now knows where you live (depending on what ID is in your wallet). You don't want that.

[The Annoyed Man]

Define the property being stolen, and its real worth to the victim. Like llwatson said, if it is just walkin' around money, it just isn't worth killing a man over unless you are being immediately threatened with deadly force yourself. If that money is going to feed your family for a week, then all bets are off.

So much of it is situational. If I catch you in my backyard trying to hotwire my SUV and steal it, I'm going to point my weapon at you and order you to the ground and wait for the cops to get there. If you don't comply and you flee my property, I'm not going to shoot after you. I'll call the cops and give them a good description. If you don't comply and you come at me, I'm going to pull the trigger, and keep pulling it until you are down. OTH, if I discover you as you are driving my vehicle away, I'm just going to call the cops and have them activate the Lojack. Same perpetrator. Same vehicle. Same victim. Four possible reactions, all of them legitimate. As a general rule, my own personal philosophy is that property is not worth killing over, unless you are yourself at risk of injury or death as a result of the situation. But that's just me, and I realize that others feel more strongly about it.

[Cuda]

Once they have your Wallet they have your address. Its not so much the money in your Wallet but your goods and your family in your house.

I for one have no idea what I would do if this happened to me. I did have good friend get robbed at gun point in December while holding his three year old daughter in his arms.


As far as the Houston Chron. I get really worked up over some of the replies on there. Some people I tell ya.

[longtooth]

Wallet has 2 credit cards in it & what cash a country Baptist preacher might have.
All ID is around my neck. Son in the military got me to doing this several yrs ago.
DL, CHL, & ins around my neck. Now if I get stopped my hands are always visible & high. It did not take long at all to get used to it & I really like it.
Fringe benefit is if you loose wallet to pickpocket or just loose it there is no address or picture ID>

[Cuda]

Wallet has 2 credit cards in it & what cash a country Baptist preacher might have.
All ID is around my neck. Son in the military got me to doing this several yrs ago.
DL, CHL, & ins around my neck. Now if I get stopped my hands are always visible & high. It did not take long at all to get used to it & I really like it.
Fringe benefit is if you loose wallet to pickpocket or just loose it there is no address or picture ID>

Thats a good idea. I also have thought of carring a throw away wallet with a few bucks and ya know the fack credit cards that come in them.