Gun Test Observations - Kahr PM45

[Excaliber]

I recently picked up a Kahr PM4543 in .45ACP caliber and now have 4 range trips and about 225 rounds in the rearview mirror. Here are my observations for those who may have an interest in this pistol:

1. Like all Kahrs, it's very well made. This model comes with a polymer frame and
satin stainless steel slide.
2. It's very small and light, particularly in light of its major caliber cartridge.
Size details and other statistics can be found at: http://www.kahr.com/SS/SS_PM4543.pdf
3. As you would expect, the recoil is significant. If you don't have a good firing grip,
you'll have trouble getting good groups and you probably won't enjoy the experience.
If you have reasonable upper body strength and a good grip, it's not a problem. My 110
pound daughter fired some fine groups with it on her first try.
4. The molded in checkering is sharp and not especially comfortable in recoil. Installing the
A-Grip covering from Brooks Tactical was a major improvement. (See http://brookstactical.com/)
5. Like many smaller guns, it takes some fiddling with your grip technique to get everything just right.
Because there isn't as much frame real estate as on a 1911, the slide lock lever and magazine release
are close together and a grip technique that may work fine with other guns causes unintended
consequences like collisions between the thumb and the slide lock lever (ouch, especially before
I had a chance to round off the sharp edges), unintended pressure on the slide lock lever which
causes the slide to lock back with rounds still in the magazine, and unintended activation of the
magazine release button due to contact with the heel of the support hand under recoil. These
were all easily solved by moving the thumbs slightly away from contact with the frame and slide.
6. I replaced the standard plain sights with Trijicon night sights. The gun shoots to point of aim
with 230 grain standard velocity rounds. I haven't tried it with +P because I don't
plan to use that for carry purposes. IMHO, out of a 3" barrel, the drawback of the increase in blast and recoil would
outweigh the benefit of a slight increase in velocity.
7. Trigger pull was very smooth and light (in my frame of reference). The pull is relatively long and very revolverlike.
It is very different than the very short pulls found on Glocks and 1911's. The edges of the trigger were also very
sharp and uncomfortable during recoil until I polished them to a slightly round configuration.
8. Ignition is not reliable with hard primer ammunition like Wolf. Using their 230 grain steel case FMJ loads,
I got at least one failure to fire in each 5 - 10 rounds. When this happened, cases were difficult
to extract and the firing pin marks on the primers were clearly not as deep as on the fired rounds.
The cure is to simply use brass cased American manufactured rounds. Mag Tech and Winchester
both went "bang" every time.
9. Kahr strongly recommends a 200 round breakin period for this gun. If you buy one for carry, don't
short change this step. During this period I saw several failures to go completely into battery,
and the failures to fire noted above. You don't want to have these experiences when you really need
flawless performance. By the time 200 rounds have gone downrange, these things get sorted out
and the gun runs very well.
10. It's very easy to conceal and comfortable to carry.
11. It rides well in a Hoffners Ultrux Minimal ES ITP J hook holster. (See http://hoffners.com/min4.jpg)
12. It disassembles like the other guns in the Kahr PM series, except the barrel requires a few degrees
of rotation from its normal position to remove it.
13. Extra magazines can be expensive. The 7 round ones that fit all Kahr .45's can cost well over $40 each
on the open market. Cheaper Than Dirt came through for me at under $30 each for genuine Kahr mags.

In summary, this is a highly satisfactory gun for an experienced shooter with good hand and arm strength who is willing to
put in the time and effort required to adapt to the challenges of managing a big cartridge fired from a
small weapon. It takes significant practice on a regular basis to be able to handle it properly, and to shoot it well. I would not
recommend it for someone's first gun, or for a "carry a lot, shoot a little" application.

[HerbM]

I read your review very closely and appreciate it.

This Kahr had come to my attention (I like .45s) and seemed very interesting.

The review pretty much ended that

Failure to fire, failure to feed, sharp edges etc.

Thank you.

[BigDan]

Great review.

I was considering the CW40 or CW45 myself as my next purchase (not sure if I should get one of these or a Glock 30. I really need to see them in person to really get a feel for the size. The K9 carries perfectly, so I am hoping the CW pistols will as well. =-]

[HerbM]

Great review.

I was considering the CW40 or CW45 myself as my next purchase (not sure if I should get one of these or a Glock 30. I really need to see them in person to really get a feel for the size. The K9 carries perfectly, so I am hoping the CW pistols will as well. =-]

Glock 30's just work. Nice trigger even if you don't get the reduced connector.

Mags from the (bigger) Glock 21 will fit in it.

I have (very) big hands and the Glock 30 is plenty big enough, pleasant to shoot. Even my wife with weak hands can shoot it -- despite the double stack mag.

I was hoping the PM45 would make a good (and smaller)companion, but so far the only thing that suits me for that is the slimline Glock 36. Small hands like this better due to the single stack mag.

[Excaliber]

I was hoping the PM45 would make a good (and smaller)companion, but so far the only thing that suits me for that is the slimline Glock 36. Small hands like this better due to the single stack mag.

I was considering the CW40 or CW45 myself as my next purchase

The height and width of the single stack (5+1) Kahr PM4543 is visually almost exactly the same as the G36. The big difference is in the length, with the Kahr about 1 3/16" shorter. This makes a significant difference mostly when carried in other than an IWB or OWB holster.

The CW45 is considerably larger than the PM4543 I reviewed. Its capacity is 6+1, and is just about exactly the same size as the G36. Dimensions and statistics are at: http://kahr.com/SS/SS_CW4543.pdf. It's a bit less expensive than the PM series, but be aware that it's a bigger package.

Probably the most notable differentiator between the PM4543 and the G36 is the trigger pull - for me, the Kahr's is much smoother and easier to shoot well, although the G36 is a fine weapon tool. I've put well over a thousand rounds through one, and like with most Glocks, it just keeps doing what it's supposed to do - nothing fancy, no surprises, and it goes "bang" every time you pull the trigger.

As HerbM notes, the interchangeability of the mags between the G30 and its bigger brothers is a very nice plus if you're OK with the double stack grip, which is a bit big for some hands and somewhat more difficult to conceal.

[BigDan]

No clue where I've been lately. LOL.

I hadn't known about the G36. I'll be sure and check it out when I get a chance. Thanks!

[HerbM]

I carried a G36 for a few months until I gave it to my daughter for her birthday, and Excaliber's comparison of dimensions would pretty much settle it for me.

The ONLY complaint I have about the G36 is the reduced round count. (And I have big hands so the bigger G30 grip is at least equal.)

Since it is "BigDan" asking, I will also say there is nothing wrong (too small) about the G36 either. My hands are likely CLOSE to yours in size even though I may be 1/2 to a foot shorter at 5'10". :smile

[Excaliber]

The ONLY complaint I have about the G36 is the reduced round count.

High round count = big, heavy, hard to conceal gun. Small round count = smaller, easier to conceal gun without as much preloaded insurance. Life is full of choices and compromises.

Small round count in .45ACP is a lot less of an issue than the same number in .380 or 9mm when they are delivered with suitable precision. .45's aren't magic, but they work well often enough to provide a reasonable degree of comfort.

Those of us who recognize that there are real threats out there and consider it prudent to prepare to deal with them by walking around armed also carry at least 2 fully loaded spare magazines (in addition to our OC spray and tactical light), don't we? A reasonably competent shooter who has practiced reloading drills to the point where they are instinctive and fluid (not a difficult or very time consuming effort at all) can deliver his full complement of ammunition in the gun and the spares with very little break in the action if he needs to with judicious use of movement and cover.

You would not be badly equipped at all with 6+1 in the G36 and 12 more in the other 2 mags ready to go. That's one more round than most police officers carried for the vast majority of the last century - and those rounds were .38's.

[BigDan]

I've been quite use to feeling of "only having" 7+1 with my Kahr K9. 6 + 1 isn't much of a stretch, ESPECIALLY when it's 7 .45 rounds!

[HerbM]

I've been quite use to feeling of "only having" 7+1 with my Kahr K9. 6 + 1 isn't much of a stretch, ESPECIALLY when it's 7 .45 rounds!

I didn't say is was a tremendous nor fatal issue, merely that this was the ONLY thing negative about the G36 for me.

Glocks are actually cheap, compared to other high quality pistols, but not necessarily when compared to some compact pistols. Usually those "cheap" pistols are fine for defense but not designed for high volume practice. Expensive firearms are almost always quality materials but oddly enough some of them are so finely tuned they aren't entirely reliable.

If an AR-15 and an AK married and had children, they would be Glock rifles.

The following article from Gabe Suarez Magazine Capacity An Asset In A Gunfight is worth reading on the issue though. (And it is just interesting.) http://www.whenshtf.com/showthread.php?t=2167

The best gun is the one you have with you -- but we all keep looking for better.

Stay alert. Stay safe.