Interesting Blog Entry on Gun Safety

[KaiserB]

I ran across and interesting blog entry this AM (on my wife's blog) regarding Gun Safety. She has an interesting point regarding an additional gun rule for children (other than the 4 main gun rules).

http://texastanya.blogspot.com/2008/07/ ... afety.html

Are you pro-gun? Anti-gun? Have a house full of guns? Won't allow guns in your house? For this discussion, it really doesn't matter. The fact is - there are guns in this world, and there are children in this world. So we need to teach our children about gun safety...

...We have taught our children from the very start the ultimate rule of gun safety. The ultimate rule is: if you find a gun run away and tell and adult.

[Liko81]

Her "ultimate rule" is just a single-sentence summarization of the 4 rules for children:

1. Stop
2. Don't touch
3. Leave the area
4. Tell an adult

Specifically, she assumes that in running away and telling an adult, the child will stop and not touch as a matter of course. This may or may not be true, as her own story demonstrates; the child left and told an adult, but took the gun with her.

I had an interesting conversation about teaching kids about guns from a friend of my girlfriend's. He advocated an early introduction to firearms (like even as young as 5 or 6), with a small-framed .22 (he even used a .22 Short; tell you why in a sec). He said to ask the child to find various objects; a toy that they don't care for anymore, or an aluminum can, a Coke bottle, etc. Line them up in a range setup, show them how to hold and fire the gun, then have them shoot each of those objects. Then go inspect the damage. Even a .22 Short soft-lead will punch through some things even adults don't think would give way. Show them how the gun makes holes; they aren't able to do that on their own. Then ask them if they can fix it. They'll probably say they can't. Ask them to think about that; when you pull that trigger, you can't call the bullet back, and you can't undo the damage to what it hits. Then ask them if they could fix a hole made in a person. The correct answer should be that they can't.

A lesson like this will teach a child, even at a very young age, that a gun is not to be feared simply because it's a gun, but it is to be respected, and is NOT a toy, because it can hurt people and break stuff. If this child is yours, make sure he knows that if he wants to shoot a gun that you will take him out and let him shoot to his heart's content, but he has to ask you; he is not go play around with a gun when you're not there to watch him. Novelty breeds interest; if you keep something hidden or forbid access to it, it becomes a mystical "big boy" object, and kids want to be big boys and girls. Give your kid every opportunity to become familiar with firearms under watchful eye, and he or she will be less likely to look for them at other times.

[Excaliber]

The fact is - there are guns in this world, and there are children in this world. So we need to teach our children about gun safety...

This is a very sane and reality grounded observation. That's probably why it so rarely comes up.

The article in the link gave an excellent example of why training children how to behave around a found weapon, and it suggested a good start on what to tell a child.

A more robust set of training points cited by Liko81 has been taught through the NRA's Eddie Eagle gun safety program for many years, and is hard to beat for simplicity and completeness. To paraphrase:

If something that appears to be a gun is seen,

1. Stop
2. Don't touch
3. Leave the area
4. Tell a (trusted) adult.

All the basics are there, and, like the 4 rules of gun safety, if these are all followed, no one will get hurt.

Here's a link to the details of the program:

http://www.nrahq.org/safety/eddie/

It might be a worthwhile thing to share on your wife's blog.

As an LEO I wore a gun every day, and was very conscious of my obligation to prevent accidents or misuse. I taught my kids the 4 rules of gun safety, and had a house rule that anytime they wanted to see a gun, all they had to do was ask and I'd drop what I was doing and show it to them safely. I also started them shooting at between 6 and 8 years old. This took all the mystery out of weapons, (like what Liko81 did with similar methods), and put them into the category of tools that they understood had to be used properly and were dangerous when they weren't (sorta like the chain saw in the garage.) I also shared real life firearms incidents from my days at work around the dinner table. As they got older, I added another rule - never let anyone point the muzzle of a weapon at you for any reason, and do whatever you need to do to keep that from happening. They quickly developed into very responsible people around guns and just about anything else, and they are competent and avid shooters to this day.

[LedJedi]

As an LEO I wore a gun every day, and was very conscious of my obligation to prevent accidents or misuse. I taught my kids the 4 rules of gun safety, and had a house rule that anytime they wanted to see a gun, all they had to do was ask and I'd drop what I was doing and show it to them safely. I also started them shooting at between 6 and 8 years old. This took all the mystery out of weapons, (like what Liko81 did with similar methods), and put them into the category of tools that they understood had to be used properly and were dangerous when they weren't (sorta like the chain saw in the garage.) I also shared real life firearms incidents from my days at work around the dinner table. As they got older, I added another rule - never let anyone point the muzzle of a weapon at you for any reason, and do whatever you need to do to keep that from happening. They quickly developed into very responsible people around guns and just about anything else, and they are competent and avid shooters to this day.

ding ding ding ding! tell him what' he's won johnny!

We use this exact same approach with my daughter. You want to demystify guns.

I only get my daughter on weekends but we make it a point of going over the 4 rules every time on the drive home. We make it a game. She JUST turned 8 and she can usually get 3 out of the four rules even after no reinforcement for 2 weeks.

In addition to the standard 4 rules we also have 2 other current house rules.

"1) You can look at any gun you want at any time but you have to ask a parent and get them to unload it first. Then you can look and safely handle it all you want." I take this pretty seriously and will drop whatever I'm doing to accommodate. It really helps promote guns as more of a tool instead of some kind of mysterious forbidden fruit. She knows she can check it out anytime she wants.

"2) You're not allowed to touch the gun unless it's in the holster." I want her to continue to have a hands'on approach to guns and make it a part of her daily life (mundane) when she's with me so whenever we're about to leave the house I will usually send her to get the 45 off of my night stand and bring it to me on the way out the door. Occasionally I'll unload it or turn on the trigger lock (built into my gun) and leave it laying on my night stand out of the holster and ask her to bring it to me just to see how she reacts. Every time i've done that she always comes back to me and says, "dad, i can't it's not in the holster..." I thank her and tell her she did the right thing and I'm proud of her for it and I go get it myself.

I recently took her out shooting (got a loaner 22 from the range). She loved it but she also saw the jet of flame and the loud noise from my 45. She wanted nothing to do with that. She loved shooting the 22 though.

We were coming out of Carter Country the other day and I was holding my shotgun tucked against my arm pointing up. I stopped and asked her why I was holding it like that. She stopped and sort of looked at me for a second and then said, "because you never point the gun at anything you dont want to destroy." I told her "that's very good, how did you know that?". She looked a little puzzled and said, "I don't know.... oh... because of the rules!"

I recently got her a set of airsoft pistols for her birthday but told her she can't use them until she can recite all 4 rules without help or until she writes all 4 rules x10. She hasn't figured out which she wants to do yet. i suspect it'll be waiting until she can recite them without help.

gotta keep the kids involved and gotta make realistic rules that promote guns as tools, not toys or mysterious objects.

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Thought I'd add this to my post to curb anyone who is alarmed by the above. Another board member PMed me with a few questions about what happens if the gun slips out of the holster or the X tries to get CPS involved.

My response was as follows:

Thanks man, appreciate the concern and have thought that through thoroughly myself.

I use a holster with a very high retention. You can see it on my youtube video. you can hold the holster upside down and shake it and the gun still won't budge. I have a holster like that for several reasons but what you point out is one of the primary ones and exactly why we have the holster rule.

I believe the every day and responsible handling of weapons is a major part of demystifying a weapon and I believe that is wholeheartedly important.

I'm not at all concerned about CPS or child court being involved. I've read the law as it pertains to the circumstance and her having access to the weapon in the situation is 100% legal. Children are allowed to have access for defensive purposes. I will also be the first to point out that she probably knows more about gun safety and has better safety skills than the court officials in the room.

§ 46.13. MAKING A FIREARM ACCESSIBLE TO A CHILD.
(a) In this section:
(1) "Child" means a person younger than 17 years of
age.
(2) "Readily dischargeable firearm" means a firearm
that is loaded with ammunition, whether or not a round is in the
chamber.
(3) "Secure" means to take steps that a reasonable
person would take to prevent the access to a readily dischargeable
firearm by a child, including but not limited to placing a firearm
in a locked container or temporarily rendering the firearm
inoperable by a trigger lock or other means.
(b) A person commits an offense if a child gains access to a
readily dischargeable firearm and the person with criminal
negligence:
(1) failed to secure the firearm; or
(2) left the firearm in a place to which the person
knew or should have known the child would gain access.
(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this
section that the child's access to the firearm:
(1) was supervised by a person older than 18 years of
age and was for hunting, sporting, or other lawful purposes;
(2) consisted of lawful defense by the child of people
or property;
(3) was gained by entering property in violation of
this code; or
(4) occurred during a time when the actor was engaged
in an agricultural enterprise.

I am supervising her activity closely. From the setup we have I can see her at all times even from my living room and dining room.

Her bringing me the gun is a part of the legal defense of person or property because the gun is to be used for defensive purposes (chl carry) and to familiarize herself with the weapon so that she can use it for defensive proposes.

I used to date a lady who's uncle was a CPS investigator. We had a few really good and insightful discussions on this topic. I really wish I could get him on the board to talk a bit on the subject, but we don't have contact anymore.

Honesty though, i do appreciate your sincere concern :) Thank you very much :)

The essence of it is don't be afraid to work with your kids in a responsible and supervised manner. The law allows for you to use provide your children access to weapons for the purposes listed above. IMO, their safety depends on it.

[Roshi]

If you have kids, get the NRA Eddie Eagle DVD, well worth it for kids to view. Not worried about your kid? What about your kids friends who may be in your house?