alcohol

[roff]

i know the law is you are not allowed to have any alcohol in you if you are carrying (with a chl)
but can you have any alcohol in you if:

you legally carry your gun in your car (with or without chl)
you had a couple of drinks and you either are under the legal limit or someone drives you home in your car
what are the laws on that?

[agbullet2k1]

There is no legal limit for carrying as there is with driving. It's pretty much up to the discretion of the officer.

As far as carrying in the car, I don't have any insight on that. My advice would be to err on the side of caution.

[DoubleJ]

i know the law is you are not allowed to have any alcohol in you if you are carrying (with a chl)
but can you have any alcohol in you if:

That statement is incorrect. it is illegal to Carry while Intoxicated. the definition of intoxicated is not "any alkeyhall in ya"

you legally carry your gun in your car (with or without chl)

if you are legal to drive (not DUI or DWI), then it shouldn't matter. if you have a chl, you are carrying under the authority of your chl. (my opinion on that last part, supported by some here)

you had a couple of drinks and you either are under the legal limit or someone drives you home in your car
what are the laws on that?

same as before.
if someone else is driving, and your gun is not on or about your person,(like, it is in the center console) I would presume that it is under Their control, and if they're good to drive(and all the other caveats), they should be good to go.

[SCone]

if someone else is driving, and your gun is not on or about your person,(like, it is in the center console) I would presume that it is under Their control, and if they're good to drive(and all the other caveats), they should be good to go.

If it's in the car, it's "on or about your person"

[BigBlueDodge]

The best answer I can give is that alcohol and guns DO NOT MIX. While there is a legal definition of intoxication for regular people (0.08 blood alcohol content), there IS NO legal definition of intoxication for CHL holders. It is up to the officers discretion if you are intoxicated or not. Do not put yourself, or your criminal history status, at the discretion of an officer's opinion and DO NOT DRINK ANY ALCOHOL WHILE CARRYING A GUN, even if it's seemingly harmless (such as 1 beer).

If you want to partake in some tasty alcoholic beverages, then it is your responsibility to ensure that you will not be carrying a gun, and understanding if there is a gun in the vehicle you are driving, or riding passenger in. If you are driving, it could be consider "on or about your person" and could by associated to you possessing the gun. If you are riding in a car, then you might have an easier time defending yourself that the gun is not yours, and you were not carrying it.

If you were intoxicated (but not carrying) and asked a friend to drive you home, I would make sure that if any guns were in the vehicle, they were either under the driver's seat, or in the truck so as to try and make them inaccessible to you.

[DoubleJ]

if someone else is driving, and your gun is not on or about your person,(like, it is in the center console) I would presume that it is under Their control, and if they're good to drive(and all the other caveats), they should be good to go.

If it's in the car, it's "on or about your person"

Not if the car is not under your control.

if, by your example, that were true, then anytime there was a gun in the vehicle, every passenger in the vehicle would be "in possession" of the gun. I think (i hope) we can agree that this is not the case.

if you're in the passenger seat, and it's under YOUR seat, different case. if you're in the passenger seat, and like in my example, it's in the center console, I believe a police officer would see it as under the driver's control.


*here is the list of "stuff" that goes along with normal folk havin' a handgun in the vehicle: you must be legally able to posess a firearm, not be a member of a criminal street gang, not be in the process of committing a crime, and must keep the handgun concealed.

[CJATE]

I’ll step up and talk, I drink, but no more then 1 beer and never liquor if I am caring, this is all assumed with food. I am a big boy, and that’s not a problem for me. IANAL, and you do what works for you.

I have been known to tie one on, cut lose, and toss back a few. If so, I break the gun down, and store it… if I am using the poor judgment to drink in excess (these are my words) I don’t want that to be confused with the poor judgment of handling my fire arm. It means too much to me to loose (as does my DL, I don’t drive after more then 1).

As for in auto, if you are CHL, you are CHL, you can’t pick and chose what law to follow (chl or castle)

[BigBlueDodge]

Hmm, this got me thinking some more. The CHL laws do not state "WHERE" it is illegal to to carry and be intoxicated. Does the law only apply to the public domain, or does it also apply to your personal domain. For example, can you drink AND carry while on your own property? (Yes I know how stupid this would be, so please don't lecture me on this. You'd be singing to the choir)

I'm not asking for myself. Actually I don't drink at all, as I've personally seen the effects of a lifetime of drinking, and it cost me my mother in her late 40's. While I don't see the logic in drinking or smoking, I do not pass judgement on others that do. But I do have family members that do enjoy a cold one, and I'm curious to the effects of the law on them (some are applying for their CHL).

[SCone]

if someone else is driving, and your gun is not on or about your person,(like, it is in the center console) I would presume that it is under Their control, and if they're good to drive(and all the other caveats), they should be good to go.

The vehicle may be "under their control" but the gun is still yours. This isn't going to take long for law enforcement to figure this one out. And then which direction does it go?

Does your buddy get charged or will it immediately become your gun?

And yes, I realize that your buddy has the right to carry within his vehicle & also know that won't keep you from taking a ride downtown.

[Bashful]

Texas Penal Code says that you can't carry while intoxicated. There's nothing there about not being able to take a drink.

46.035 (d) A license holder commits an offense if, while intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed.

Section 46.06 offers this definition of intoxication.

46.06 (b)(1) "Intoxicated" means substantial impairment of mental or physical capacity resulting from introduction of any substance into the body.

This section deals with the sale of handguns, but it's interesting that they define 'intoxication' here.

When you look at section 49.01 here is definition of 'intoxication', which includes two tests. One is mental or physical impairment, and/or the BAL of .08 or greater.

Sec. 49.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
(1) "Alcohol concentration" means the number of grams of alcohol per:
(A) 210 liters of breath;
(B) 100 milliliters of blood; or
(C) 67 milliliters of urine.
(2) "Intoxicated" means:
(A) not having the normal use of mental or physical faculties by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a controlled substance, a drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those substances, or any other substance into the body; or
(B) having an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more.

Finally... in the Q/A section of the State's CHL website, there's the question concerning drinking and carrying. The response is that it's not illegal to drink and carry, but it IS illegal to carry while intoxicated.

Using the above definitions... if you have 'normal use of <your> mental or physical faculties' and have a BAL of 0.04%... you do not meet the State's definition of intoxication.

[aardwolf]

Here's a question for people who say a CHL is carrying under the authority of that license when driving a car. Is a CHL also carrying under the authority of that license in their home? Are they guilty of intentionally failing to conceal if they open carry on their back forty? If they go out and get drunk, take a taxi home, and then fall into bed, are they guilty of violating 46.035.d is there's a handgun in the nightstand?

[DoubleJ]

The vehicle may be "under their control" but the gun is still yours. This isn't going to take long for law enforcement to figure this one out. And then which direction does it go?

Does your buddy get charged or will it immediately become your gun?

And yes, I realize that your buddy has the right to carry within his vehicle & also know that won't keep you from taking a ride downtown.

Ownership does not equate control. like I said, if your buddy is fine to drive (not DUI, DWI, or the caveats to "car carry"), then the cops shouldn't be involved. If the cops pull over ya'll, the gun has nothing to do with nothing. if the officer asks the driver if he has a gun, then the driver can say "Yes, it's in the center console" and be done with it.
I don't see what the cops are "going to figure out."

buddy get charged with what? UCW? how?

and once again, why would you go "downtown?" PI is the only thing I can think of. If the both of you are obeying the law, I don't see how any of this is a problem.

to Aardvark: If that weren't true, how did you carry in your car before? you may be carrying under *both* authorites when in control of a vehicle, but the CHL is the important one. maybe you could say it "trumps" the other. by your premise, you shouldn't have to show your CHL when stopped, cause, you know, you're not carrying under your CHL.
I defy anyone to drive ten over the speed limit, and when stopped, don't show your CHL, and when the officer comes back up to your window, probably peeved, tell him you're not carrying under your CHL authority.
it was never illegal to carry on your own property, so I think that goes to a seperate issue.

now where's all the ALKEYHALL IS DA DEBUL folk to turn this into every other drinking thread?????
and Frankie! we need Frankie!!!!

[txflyer]

Here's a question for people who say a CHL is carrying under the authority of that license when driving a car. Is a CHL also carrying under the authority of that license in their home? Are they guilty of intentionally failing to conceal if they open carry on their back forty? If they go out and get drunk, take a taxi home, and then fall into bed, are they guilty of violating 46.035.d is there's a handgun in the nightstand?

If I read things correctly, CHL does not apply to you on your private property (e.g. a 30.06 sign on my property does not apply to me). The reason a car is different is because it is out amongst the public - at least in my opinion.

So since a CHL does not apply to you on your private property, I don't see how you can be in violation of 46.035.d if you're drunk sitting next to a weapon on your private property (not smart, but not illegal). Again, my opinion.

If someone knows of case law that backs this up or debunks it I would love to see it. If there's no case law, then this all pretty much a matter of opinion, and I say do what makes sense. And sense to me is that there is no way a CHL (or a drivers license) is needed or enforceable for me on my private property.

[gmckinl]

I hope my flame suite is up to this, but here goes…

I learned a lot from our former cohort TXI and others with LE experience. IANAL so please excuse any slight mis-use of terms, but here is what has been offered (to the best of my recollection) up by those who should know.

1. The so called 0.08 level is not a minimum threshold. You can be nailed as under the influence for driving when you only blow a 0.01 if you’re weaving, etc. The law says at 0.08 you ARE under the influence, it DOES NOT SAY YOU ARE NOT UNDER THE INFLUENCE if you are below that BAC level. THIS IS AN IMPORTANT POINT. Read it again and then read it again.
2. CHL issues are based on “under the influence”. Soooo they are in reality the SAME as for driving except there is no specified numerical value at which you are AUTOMATICALLY considered to be under the influence.
3. The CHL regs DO NOT say you must be free of any measurable or any specific BAC number, they say you must not be under the influence.

<insert my opinion here> For CHL purposes, YOU have to decide what “under the influence” means to you. Whether it’s 0, 1, 2, 3, or 20 drinks, it’s really up to whomever the officer is who tags you and WHATEVER he thinks based upon your BEHAVIOR. Neither what you think or what BAC you blow count for diddly squat. <end insert my opinion here>

There’s been a boat load of discussions on this subject. Do a search and your eyeballs will cage with the amount of hits. Some say don’t even sniff a cork, others say pound a couple/few. Your call dude; it doesn’t matter anyway, the LEO is the one in the drivers seat and it’s HIS CALL.

Cheers mate

[WillieD]

The easiest thing is to just not drink out in public if you wish to carry. My wife knows that I will not have a drink with dinner at a restaurant or at a friends as I am carrying, and it is not worth the potential risk/hassle. More than likely nothing will ever happen, but why put yourself in that position? Is one or two drinks worth it?

I have absolutely have no problem drinking a beer at home and do so almost every day. After drinking nothing but water all day I need somethingn with some flavor to wash dinner down.