What's Wrong With this Grip?

[TDDude]

Where's that bullet probably gonna go?

[Target1911]

To much finger on the trigger......IIRC it will go low left

[flintknapper]

The bullet should go right where the sights are pointed.

I see nothing glaringly wrong with the grip. I can see a little "daylight" between the web of the hand and the back strap of the pistol (at the top), suggesting a higher grip could be achieved...but that aids in recoil control more than providing any additional accuracy.

The trigger finger placement is consistent with the practices of most DAO-DA/SA shooters I know (finger engaged at the distal joint), so no problem there IMO.


There are few other things I might tweak...but "grip" in terms of overall contact with the gun, support hand placement, etc... is a highly personal thing and something best left to the shooter to decide.

[HighVelocity]

I see nothing wrong with the grip as shown in the above photo.

Post a link to the video so we can see what else is happening.

[bryang]

I have to agree it looks like a pretty good grip to me, also. I would like to see the rest of the video, however.

-geo

[nuparadigm]

To much finger on the trigger......IIRC it will go low left

Ditto that.

[HighVelocity]

A LOT of folks put their finger through to the first joint. If it works for a particular shooter then I wouldn't even consider telling them it was wrong. If they're having trouble hitting the target, then I might say something (if asked for help).

[WildBill]

For a shooter with his size of hands and a gun that small, it would be uncomfortable and unnatural not to have the trigger finger in the distal joint.

[TDDude]

http://www.stoegerindustries.com/video/index.php?v=6

I know when I went from the joint to the finger pad, my shooting improved dramatically. The guy in the picture is even past the first finger joint and is pulling the trigger with the middle part of his finger. I'm sure that finger section has a name but I don't know what it is but I'm pretty sure it's not the best way to shoot.

He is also a bit limp wristed. I'm surprised he didn't get any stovepipes.

Anyway, just something I noticed.

[bryang]

Actually Massad Ayoob recommends for better control under stress or combat fire and for more control of the trigger pull you should make contact with the crease where the distal phalange of the finger meets the median phalange...translate: He finds he has better control with his finger deeper into the trigger guard. I have read this in both Stress Fire and Combat Handgunnery. He showed pictures "similar" (not exactly) to the picture in the OP.

With that said, I trust the opinions of those on this forum who have much more experience with shooting under stress than I have.

-geo

[flintknapper]

Actually Massad Ayoob recommends for better control under stress or combat fire and for more control of the trigger pull you should make contact with the crease where the distal phalange of the finger meets the median phalange...translate: He finds he has better control with his finger deeper into the trigger guard. I have read this in both Stress Fire and Combat Handgunnery. He showed pictures "similar" (not exactly) to the picture in the OP.

With that said, I trust the opinions of those on this forum who have much more experience with shooting under stress than I have.

-geo

Your own opinion is just fine!

There is no single CORRECT way. Many variables must be considered.

Just a few:

Action of the weapon (single action, DAO, DA/SA, striker fired, LDA, etc)
Hand/Finger strength of shooter.
Length of pull (and weight) of trigger.
Finger length/Hand size of shooter.
How well the gun fits the shooters hand.
Expected use of weapon (self defense, target, plinking).

In normal practice sessions (for self defense)... I shoot a double action with the finger engaging the trigger at the distal joint and then smoothly "roll" through the trigger pull. When target shooting at longer distances...I will often "stage" the trigger using more of the "pad" of the index finger.

I have enough hand strength to shoot either way (even with heavy trigger pulls), but I recognize that many people don't. Personally, I feel that "trigger control" and steadiness of the weapon has much more to do with keeping the trigger finger independent (not squeezing with the hand) and having a good supporting grip with the non firing hand than how much finger you choose to apply to the trigger. (The exception being when you are shooting with just one hand).


Each person needs to find what works best for him/herself. Small adjustments regarding placement of the finger upon the trigger CAN make a difference, but generally this applies more to experienced shooters. Most often, a poor overall grip, anticipating recoil, flinching, or squeezing the trigger with the whole hand...is the real culprit when poor hits start showing up.

There are entire charts showing how "if you hit here" you are "doing this", but I have found them not to be very useful. It is much better to have an experienced, patient, and open minded person "watch" you... to see what the problem(s) is/are. Many times... there is more than one vice involved and the amount of finger contact will generally be way down on that list.

[bryang]

Actually Massad Ayoob recommends for better control under stress or combat fire and for more control of the trigger pull you should make contact with the crease where the distal phalange of the finger meets the median phalange...translate: He finds he has better control with his finger deeper into the trigger guard. I have read this in both Stress Fire and Combat Handgunnery. He showed pictures "similar" (not exactly) to the picture in the OP.

With that said, I trust the opinions of those on this forum who have much more experience with shooting under stress than I have.

-geo

Your own opinion is just fine!

There is no single CORRECT way. Many variables must be considered.

Just a few:

Action of the weapon (single action, DAO, DA/SA, striker fired, LDA, etc)
Hand/Finger strength of shooter.
Length of pull (and weight) of trigger.
Finger length/Hand size of shooter.
How well the gun fits the shooters hand.
Expected use of weapon (self defense, target, plinking).

In normal practice sessions (for self defense)... I shoot a double action with the finger engaging the trigger at the distal joint and then smoothly "roll" through the trigger pull. When target shooting at longer distances...I will often "stage" the trigger using more of the "pad" of the index finger.

I have enough hand strength to shoot either way (even with heavy trigger pulls), but I recognize that many people don't. Personally, I feel that "trigger control" and steadiness of the weapon has much more to do with keeping the trigger finger independent (not squeezing with the hand) and having a good supporting grip with the non firing hand than how much finger you choose to apply to the trigger. (The exception being when you are shooting with just one hand).


Each person needs to find what works best for him/herself. Small adjustments regarding placement of the finger upon the trigger CAN make a difference, but generally this applies more to experienced shooters. Most often, a poor overall grip, anticipating recoil, flinching, or squeezing the trigger with the whole hand...is the real culprit when poor hits start showing up.

There are entire charts showing how "if you hit here" you are "doing this", but I have found them not to be very useful. It is much better to have an experienced, patient, and open minded person "watch" you... to see what the problem(s) is/are. Many times... there is more than one vice involved and the amount of finger contact will generally be way down on that list.

Thank you, sir, that makes a whole lot of since to me. I have learned so much on this forum that I have come to trust the opinions I get here much more than what I read in books.

Thanks, flintknapper, for sharing you knowledge with us.

-geo

[Abraham]

I'd be interested in seeing whether the wrist is straight or bent.

[CompVest]

Quite frankly I find very little about the posted grip wrong but everything about it I believe could be improved.

For the grip I teach the finger is too far on the trigger. It is difficult to pull the trigger straight back with the finger placed in this far on the trigger. In the picture the finger is actually past the first joint.

The thumbs are wrapped with one under the other which does a couple of things. The off hand is lower on the gun leaving a lot of gun above the hand. Recoil can be controlled better with the gun down low in the hands. Also with the thumbs in the position shown it pulls the fleshy lower palm of the hand partially off the gun. Just like with car tires - more rubber on the road more traction - more skin on the gun more control of the recoil.

Also the knuckles of the off hand I can't see the dominant hand are white whick leads me to think the shooters is over gripping the gun.

These are just my opinions for what they are worth.