News links

[jiannichan]

Is there anywhere or does anyone have news link to articals where someone shot at a bg either attempting to break into his home or automobile and it was justified by the courts? Just trying to prove to someone that it has been done, especially at night and justified. Already have tried showing them that the law states you can do so, according to TPC 9.42

[seamusTX]

The Never Again section of this forum is full of them. Do you remember Joe Horn?

Usually a justified shooting is cleared by a grand jury. It never gets to court.

- Jim

[Skiprr]

Also try the NRA's Armed Citizen: http://www.nraila.org/ArmedCitizen/default.aspx.

Choose Texas as the state search field, and let 'er fly. You'll get 420 results: synopses that include the original source and date, so you can dig deeper if you want.

[jiannichan]

Cool, thanks guys. I have been able to find a few articles, but the ones I have found so far were CHL holders. Now I just need to find some where someone without a CHL protecting their property (vehicle).

[seamusTX]

Justification for self defense has nothing to do with having a CHL. Having a CHL simply means that the person is legal to carry a handgun in more places.

There aren't going to be a lot of vehicle self-defense cases under the 2007 Castle Doctrine changes to the law.

Breaking into someone's occupied vehicle just isn't that common, and there aren't that many people who have firearms handy in their vehicle.

What you might want to do is go the Texas Legislature web site and look at the text of the bills themselves, not just the law. The bills state the reason for passing the law, and often there are also transcripts of testimony.

That will make it quite clear that the legislature wanted to make breaking into an occupied vehicle a justification for the use of deadly force.

Or you could suggest to whomever you're arguing with, simply curl up into a ball and play possum when someone tries to break into his car. If he sticks his fingers in his ears and hums, the bad guy might go away.

- Jim

[jiannichan]

See, our argument was you're justified to protect yourself and your property at night and may use deadly force, but the main thing he has set in his head was that you will face jail-time for shooting and killing a BG that is breaking in your car or trying to steal it, if you're not licensed to concealed carry. I showed him a link to read HB 1815 and TPC 9.42. Haven't heard back from him since.

[seamusTX]

You are mixing up a bunch of issues.

You are always justified in using deadly force when and to the degree necessary to prevent an unprovoked use of deadly force (that is, attempted murder), kidnapping, sexual assault, robbery, burglary, or arson.

You can legally use deadly force when and to the degree necessary to prevent theft or criminal mischief in the night time (in Texas and maybe nowhere else).

It is important to note the differences between robbery, burglary, and theft:

• Robbery is theft by force or threat of force from a person.
• Burglary is unlawfully entering a building or vehicle to commit theft or any felony.
• Theft is unlawfully taking anything. If I reach over the fence and pick a blade of grass from your lawn, that is theft (and criminal trespass).

Whether or not you are in legal possession of the weapon that you used is irrelevant. You could be justified in the use of deadly force but still prosecuted for unlawful possession.

That actually happens rather often with felons.

- Jim

[srothstein]

I don't have the links, but I hope you can find something based on what I remember. Way back in the early 90's when Steve Hilbig was the Bexar County DA there were two cases which should prove interesting to you. One was an off duty officer and his son. They had been having trouble with some local gang members and sat up one night on the roof of their house. When the gang members came by and started vandalizing the car and house, thowners shot at them, killing one. Father was indicted and tried because the DA claimed he ambushed the gang members. Jury found him not guilty so the son had the charges dropped.

A second case from the same time frame was a bar owner who heard noises from the side of his bar one night after closing (around 2:00 a.m.). When he went outside, he found a gang member tagging the side of the bar with spray paint. Owner shot and killed the tagger and Hilbig declined to prosecute saying it was legal to use deadly force to stop criminal mischief at night. I don't think the case even went to a grand jury, but I could be wrong.