Can someone explain this video to me?

[atxgun]

It starts out as a guy that seems pretty proficient in a wide variety of means of self defense. Then when he gets to the hand gun (around 3:00 or so) he starts shooting it it sideways. Is there any tactical real world advantage to ever shooing like this? It left me thinking what the heck....

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=laArmgaM3To[/youtube]

[AFJailor]

Ive seen people cant the weapon slightly when shooting off-hand to help handle the recoil. But the whole video gave me kind of a weird vibe.

[nitrogen]

I'm guessing it's due to the extreme 90˚+ angle, you have better control and movement if you angle your wrist at 90˚ than if you keep it straight. Just try it, and you'll see.

[asleepatthereel]

I couldnt see the video due to it being blocked here at work, but I have heard of shooting sideways and even upside down to test how well the weapon will feed. It seems that some weapons are prone to jam in such situations. I dont recommend trying it though.

[jimlongley]

Maybe he's trying to demonstrate what poor form shooting sidways is under most circumstances.

All that carefully scripted dancing reminds me of taking baton training for Shore Patrol duty in the Navy, the first time I had to use my baton, the person I was in conflict with just didn't react the way the person I was working with during training.

[Luggo1]

Ive seen people cant the weapon slightly when shooting off-hand to help handle the recoil. But the whole video gave me kind of a weird vibe.

+1 on this. Several instructors advocate this not only with off hand but with one hand. The cant is only slight, nothing like 90 degrees. It enables you to have a more solid "locked" wrist with just a little cant.

[flintknapper]

It starts out as a guy that seems pretty proficient in a wide variety of means of self defense. Then when he gets to the hand gun (around 3:00 or so) he starts shooting it it sideways. Is there any tactical real world advantage to ever shooing like this? It left me thinking what the heck....

These days folks are quick to condemn techniques that seem unorthodox. The “sideways” presentation of the weapon (often referred to as GANGSTA) does have practical applications IMO.

For the average person with a CHL….I would advise against learning the technique, however…for LEO shooting around a ballistic shield, it is a necessary thing to know.

As applied in this video…it is limited to “point shooting” ONLY, there was no “sighted” use of the technique that I saw. The trainers are simply trying to incorporate things we do “naturally” into a training program designed to deal with high levels of stress.

Take your hand, fully extend your arm and point at something across the room. Note the position of your palm. Most folks will have their palm oriented parallel (palm down) to the floor (or something in between). This position “naturally” allows the greatest articulation of the arm and it “frees up” the shoulder. Throw a “slow motion” punch in the air and see if you do that “straight up”, same thing….not natural!

Remember…you are NOT looking for a front sight when point shooting at CQ distances.

If that is the case (and it is), then we might as well take advantage of some of the things that “canting” the weapon can provide.

1. A natural feel when thrusting/punching/pointing a weapon quickly at a target under stress (unsighted).

2. Allows the greatest amount of articulation/flexibility of the arm for most people. This is especially true of men…who are more likely to be “shoulder bound” because of musculature. This is the targeted student in this case.


3. Canting…brings the muzzle more in line with the centerline of the head while leaving the arm in its most natural (and therefore strong) position. Try this: Square up to a pretended threat, lift your strong side arm up as if to point your weapon. You will note that in order to bring the centerline of the muzzle under the centerline of your head (the most accurate way to shoot), you had to move your arm (or head) about 6”-8”.

Now do the same thing….but cant your weapon about 45 deg. or a little more. You should see the muzzle moving distinctly toward the centerline of your head (that’s what we are after). The only time I can see that this is not an advantage is when you are bladed away from your strong-side approximately 45 degrees. In this position… the weapon pretty much lines up regardless of grip.

4. A bonus…(even if unlikely to be noticed), is that canting greatly increases the “ghost picture” of your weapon. Even though we are point shooting (not using a sight)…that doesn’t mean you won’t notice your weapon in hand. I will be quick to say…however, the level of stress has much to do with this. In any case, hold your weapon straight up, then cant it. Which one is more noticeable? IF this can help me….I’ll take it.


Of course there are disadvantages to canting your pistol as well.

1. When turned to the degree shown in the video, any strike/pressure applied the wrist in a downward motion stands a good chance of dislodging the weapon. The wrist is inherently weak in this position (arm extended, palm to floor).

2. There exists a greater chance of weapon malfunction (although personally I’ve not seen this to be a problem with most good pistols and a good grip).

3. You may need to actually “train” yourself to do this if you have done something else for many years. Yes…I know that sounds contradictory…since the premise is that it is “natural”.

4. You risk being labeled a “gangsta wannabe”, or thought of as a neophyte amongst those with more traditional training.

The bottom line IMO…is this:

Don’t be afraid to try new things. Experiment and find what works best for YOU based on your lifestyle, physical constraints and needs!

Do not be persuaded that every so called “expert” is just that. Closely examine what they have to offer, apply what makes sense for you and discard the rest. It is YOUR life that is the on the line.

[fickman]

I agree with flintknapper. A LEO relative told me that he had an instructor encourage them to try about 45 degrees because it was a more natural pointing position.

The benefit of this video (yes, it's very silly at times), is to consider that you won't always have a chance to get in your "range stance" during a situation. I learned something (from a mental preparedness viewpoint) from watching him shoot in close quarters at the leg or the side of the attacker. I also should practice different arm positions for short distance shooting - things that more likely recreate real world scenarios.

I don't think I'll practice any of the Steven Segal prestidigitation techniques.

[troglodyte]

+1 Flint

Just sitting at the computer here I raised my cheapo airsoft 1911 to shoot the chair 90 degrees to my right. To rotate the gun to the "proper" up/down orientation I had to rotate my elbow in and that tended pressed my shoulder and right side of my chest forward while causing my back to arch a little more (from my normal bad posture).

If I canted the gun a little, even to 45 I could be on target faster, more accurate, and with less contorsion.

The video segment at approx 2:30 shows a situation, that appears, to be holding one assailant off (to the left) while engaging a second to the right at approx. 180 degrees. Trying to pull the gun up at a "proper" grip just throws the whole body out of whack. The cant is just more "natural".

All that said, I have never had the opportunity to train this way or any other way. I'm just experimenting as I sit (or stand) by the computer. It seems to work.

[fm2]

It looks like the canted gun may have applications as stated above.

A couple of things I noticed were muzzle masking the lead hand during contact and moving the gun close to the BG( projecting the gun); he almost hit the BG gun with his gun).