To get or not to get a CHL?

pmcdn · Post by **pmcdn** » Thu May 11, 2006 11:29 pm

Hi everyone! I am 39 and live in Houston and have grown up around guns, ranches, hunting (although I don't hunt much anymore) and have been tossing around about getting my CHL for about a year now. Running it over with friends I always get the pros and cons... mostly the cons. NOT that it causes crimes, etc like from oposers, but that I might be more liable, etc should I ever have to use it for defense. I always carry when I travel and stay over at my girlfriends house but I don''t have much interest in running around town with a gun on me, except for a few exceptions.

With that said, I ask myself... why do I really need a CHL? I have had two incedents (cars broken into) where I had a gun under the seat and when I volunteered that info to the police, they didn't confiscate the gun or arest me. In fact, one complimented the gun (it was my Ruger security-six). I know that I may not always be that lucky.

Question to you all: Why WOULDN'T I want to get my CHL?

thanks in advance!

~David

Commander · Post by **Commander** » Fri May 12, 2006 12:10 am

David,
I'm not sure why your friends would think that as a CHL holder if you used a gun in self defense you would be more "liable" than if you used it without a CHL. As a CHL holder you will receive instruction in the laws that pertain to self defense which you may not be aware of as a non-CHL holder. Hopefully that knowledge will keep you from making a wrong decision that you might make otherwise.

The two incidents you mentioned both involved a gun under the seat of your car. You are lucky that the gun wasn't stolen and lucky that the Police were understanding.

longtooth · Post by **longtooth** » Fri May 12, 2006 3:52 am

+ 1 for above. But this is one thing I have also been told. My answer. No you are not. You are more informed & educated about the law & when you are legally able to use deadly force than the one who does not have a CHL. Therefore less likely to use illegal deadly force & be arrested & charged. But even if the incorrect supposition was correct, I would rather be held to a higher standard of liability than the general public, than be held to a six ft lower ground level than the still living general public.

RPBrown · Post by **RPBrown** » Fri May 12, 2006 6:48 am

First, welcome to the forum. You will find as I have that you can learn a lot from the folks here.

I agree with both of the above posts, BUT, that is a decision that only you can answer. You will have the advantage of being better informed, and if you are like most of us, it will make you more aware of your surroundings. Some don't feel comfortable carrying 24/7. Others like myself would rather have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

With the way things are these days, for me at least its a must.

I wish you well on your decision and again, welcome to the forum

jbirds1210 · Post by **jbirds1210** » Fri May 12, 2006 7:30 am

Welcome!

If you can think of no other reason to obtain a Texas CHL...do it to celebrate your right to do so!

Sit back and read for a while; the people here have an amazing amount of collective experience. Read for a week and you will be racing to take a class! Take care and I hope that your decision becomes easier!
Jason

Diode · Post by **Diode** » Fri May 12, 2006 7:31 am

I took my CHL classes earlier this year, I am presently waiting on my license and I am very glad I made the effort. I have learned so much it is amazing.
Also this forum is loaded with very smart and helpful people. Good luck with your decision and welcome to the forums.

Cosmo 9 · Post by **Cosmo 9** » Fri May 12, 2006 9:59 am

Hi David & welcome to the forum! There is a great deal of knowledge and experience here. I read way, way more than I type. As far as the liable question goes if you take a life or injure someone in self defence you will go to court with or without a CHL. Take your time in this desision it is a big one! I would say that everyone here thinks it's one of the best things we have done to protect ourselves and our loved ones. Katrina has changed this area and not for the better.

barres · Post by **barres** » Fri May 12, 2006 10:48 am

I am in the process of getting my CHL right now. My arguments against getting it sooner were always: time, effort and cost of getting the license and that I live in a rather rural town of about 30,000, so there isn't much crime.

You say you live in Houston; do you watch the news and/or read the paper? The idea of going to visit the in-laws in the Houston area unarmed scares me these days. A drive-by shooting which I heard from my bedroom, plus reports of a pedophile assaulting children near my son's school three blocks from my house convinced me that my sleepy little town doesn't protect my family and me from crime. Those things finally outweighed the time, effort, and cost argument in my mind. You may reach a different conclusion.

Another added benefit, if you are a gun enthusiast, is that a CHL will exempt you from the NICS check for any purchases you make while it is valid.

Maybe I'm paranoid for getting my CHL. I can live with that. I'm not sure that I and my family would live if I am unarmed at the wrong time. And you never know when the wrong time will come.

progun47 · Post by **progun47** » Fri May 12, 2006 10:56 am

I agree with all said above, I'd add only this. If you go take the class you will be better informed about the law and the decision may come easier for you. After taking the class you can make the decision NOT to send in the packet and you are only out the cost of the class, but you will learn something from taking it so the money wasn't wasted. If you decide to go ahead and get the CHL, then you can also make the decision when to carry, now you are taking a great risk when carrying with out the CHL. I would think that the liability would be greater without the CHL than with one if the ball goes up and you had to use deadly force to save your life. Just my thoughts......

propellerhead · Post by **propellerhead** » Fri May 12, 2006 11:09 am

I'm in a similar situation as pmcdn. I'm a few years older and never really found myself in a situation where a gun would've been good to have. Heck, the only real fight I ever had was back in 4th Grade. After that, it was all organized Tae Kwon Do matches. I too have been contemplating the CHL issue for a while. I agree with progun47 and that's the path I'm planning to take. Take the class and learn more about the law and the responsibilities that come with a CHL. Then I can decide if I want to send it for the CHL. If I do send it in, then I can decide if I want to carry or not. Or carry only during certain trips. Signing up for a CHL class doesn't mean I'll be walking around 24/7 with a loaded gun in my waistband. :)

nemesis · Post by **nemesis** » Fri May 12, 2006 12:46 pm

CHL holders don't have to wait for a NICS check when purchasing a gun. We have often had CHL holders comment that they had been stopped for minor traffic violations, often in places infamous for aggressive enforcement, but they were allowed to leave with only a warning.........after producing their CHL.

Diode · Post by **Diode** » Fri May 12, 2006 12:58 pm

propellerhead wrote:I'm in a similar situation as pmcdn. I'm a few years older and never really found myself in a situation where a gun would've been good to have. Heck, the only real fight I ever had was back in 4th Grade. After that, it was all organized Tae Kwon Do matches. I too have been contemplating the CHL issue for a while. I agree with progun47 and that's the path I'm planning to take. Take the class and learn more about the law and the responsibilities that come with a CHL. Then I can decide if I want to send it for the CHL. If I do send it in, then I can decide if I want to carry or not. Or carry only during certain trips. Signing up for a CHL class doesn't mean I'll be walking around 24/7 with a loaded gun in my waistband. :)

I think you have a good plan, Do try and take it where they do everything at one place. That way if you decide to send it in you'l lhave everything you need. I did mine at the range in Humble, we did prints and Notary all that 2 night course. Actually was fun :)

GrannyGlock · Post by **GrannyGlock** » Fri May 12, 2006 12:59 pm

jbirds1210 wrote:If you can think of no other reason to obtain a Texas CHL...do it to celebrate your right to do so!

We have a God-given right to defend ourselves. No one can take that away from us (like the knowledge Tae Kwon Do.) We have a Constitutional right to use guns to defend ourselves and there are those groups who will try to take that away from us. I feel the more individuals who go the distance to be included in that group of CHL holders, the more power we have.

When I get my CHL (which I hope will be before June 1) I do intend to carry.

From a woman's prospective, if I am to be a statistic, I want it to be that of one more middle-aged woman who felt the resonsibility of going through the steps--education, training, fee(tax) and interminable waiting period-- to get that designation of CHL holder, and not that of a defenseless crime statistic.

sparx · Post by **sparx** » Fri May 12, 2006 2:27 pm

progun47 wrote:I agree with all said above, I'd add only this. If you go take the class you will be better informed about the law and the decision may come easier for you. After taking the class you can make the decision NOT to send in the packet and you are only out the cost of the class, but you will learn something from taking it so the money wasn't wasted. If you decide to go ahead and get the CHL, then you can also make the decision when to carry, now you are taking a great risk when carrying with out the CHL. I would think that the liability would be greater without the CHL than with one if the ball goes up and you had to use deadly force to save your life. Just my thoughts......

+1, and BTW, Welcome David!

Besides having the same first name, we have a little in common! I, too, was raised on a ranch and grew up in a family that took pride in gun ownership, hunting, etc. Although I don't have my CHL yet either (my wife wants to take the class with me and get hers at the same time, too), we had thought about it a few times in the past and certainly considered it a good thing.

With the exception of a few instances in the past where I sure wished I had something more than pepper spray handy "just in case", we've at least "felt" we were safe for the most part. Fortunately nothing happened during those instances, but I certainly wouldn't repeat them today without having something more at readiness. Even so, those occasions were not common by any means, so why go through the expense, time and training needed to get a CHL?

First, because if we ever find ourselves in one of those situations again, I will at least feel a little bit better knowing that I can, or attempt to, protect my wife and myself with something that carries a little more "oomph" than pepper spray should something really ugly happen. But, since those situations don't happen very often, why carry the rest of the time? That leads me to...

Second, the number of instances where someone goes ballistic on innocent citizens in peaceful surroundings is growing every day. Unfortunately some of these are occurring in "gun free" zones such as schools or 30.06-posted businesses or malls so there's little a CHL will do for you should you find yourself there when something bad goes down (assuming you're abiding by law and aren't packing), but there's plenty more that aren't. I certainly don't want to be "caught with my pants down" so to speak in one of these situations, so I guess you can say that fear is an underlying factor. Not fear in the sense that something WILL happen (or I'd be a hermit), but fear that SHOULD something happen, I would be more or less helpless and at the mercy of some criminal or psycho with an axe to grind against the world for some demented reason.

In "days of old" almost every common gentleman (and I'm sure many ladies, too) carried a firearm, not necessarily out of fear but out of respect; for themselves, their country and their freedoms. I would like to see some of that come back into style. I may not be able to prove it, but feel pretty sure that if that were the case there would be fewer casualties in "postal" situations.

Should CHL holders be held to a higher liability for their actions? I would really think it depends more on the action. Take carelessly brandishing a handgun in public for example. I would think that with the training one must go through to get their CHL, that they would, or should, have no excuse, so therefore should be held to higher accountability for their actions than someone who hadn't, as it would have been done out of stupidity instead of ignorance. But, as long as the law was followed and the CHL-holder did everything right, I would actually feel that a CHL-holder would have better preparation and training should deadly force be called upon, so there might be less determination needed to justify such use versus a non-CHL-holder in such a situation. Would this lessen the liability of either person? As long as the law was followed and the use of deadly force was justified, I would hope not (we're all liable for our actions, whatever they may be), but it might make some in the jury feel a little more at ease knowing that the victim had more training as a CHL-holder in justifying use of such force.

If your thinking on liability is more along the lines of the mess we have today in many courts, in that criminals that have been justifiably killed or wounded while committing a crime and having their relatives or themselves sue the person that shot them, I can't really say as I see absolutely no logic in that at all. The criminal put him or herself in that situation at their choosing, so in my mind at least, they should be held liable for their choice. My opinions of course, nothing more.

Once again, welcome to the forum! I know that I've gleaned TONS of valuable information from some VERY intelligent people and posts here, and am sure you will, too!

Boma · Post by **Boma** » Sat May 13, 2006 12:10 am

Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

TexasCHLforum.com

To get or not to get a CHL?

To get or not to get a CHL?

Reasons Not to get a CHL