A Great Teaching Moment

[MTICop]

I have been out the past two weekends teaching the NRA basic pistol/rifle/shotgun classes to some Boy Scouts in Corpus Christie. As required by the lesson plan we discussed ammunition: what it is, how it works, calibers, etc. We also discussed misfires, hang fires, and squib loads. The kids asked a lot of good questions and I answered them all but there is no substitute for first hand experience which brings me to the purpose of this thread.

One of the other instructors there had just purchased a Para Ordinance .45 and wanted to shoot it. He reloads and had some of his loaded ammunition there. During the lunch break, we took it out to the particular range we were at and he shot it. This attracted the attention of most of the Scouts who came over to watch from the staging area we had set up. (They were shooting .22 rifles and shotguns up to this point.) He then asked me if I wanted to give it a try and, as if he had to ask, I said yes. I loaded 10 rounds in the magazine and began firing. About shot number six didn't go off like it was supposed to. All I got was a "pop". I stopped, downloaded and disassembled the pistol and asked for a rod. Sure enough, the bullet was still in the barrel. I took the barrel over to the scouts and started asking questions if they had heard the lack of a "bang" when the round was shot and then showed the the barrel with the bullet still stuck in it. I then got to go through the safety questions of what could have happened if I would not have been paying attention and chambered and fired another round. It was a great opportunity for them actually see and understand what happens.

By the way, I was done firing his re-loaded ammunition as well.

[longtooth]

Good job in using the situation to educate.
Glad no one was hurt, that it was a squib & not a double charge.
All fingers in tact.

[BigRon]

That is why I avoid other people's reloads. I never offer mine to anyone else for the same reason. And, I would never carry reloads my own for self defense. Additionally, Mas Ayoob has written a lot on the liability problems with carrying reloads.

A boy scout outing is an inappropriate place for shooting reloads. If that had been an inexperienced shooter, this post might be telling us of a disaster. As longtooth commented, that could just as easily have been a double charge instead of a squib load. None of us are perfect, we should keep our reloads to ourselves.

[Oldgringo]

That is why I avoid other people's reloads. I never offer mine to anyone else for the same reason. And, I would never carry reloads my own for self defense. Additionally, Mas Ayoob has written a lot on the liability problems with carrying reloads.

A boy scout outing is an inappropriate place for shooting reloads. If that had been an inexperienced shooter, this post might be telling us of a disaster. As longtooth commented, that could just as easily have been a double charge instead of a squib load. None of us are perfect, we should keep our reloads to ourselves.

Without arguing the merits of your argument against reloads in a public place, I will suggest that, "a picture is worth a thousand words". There could never ever nowhere be a finer example of a squib and how to deal with it.

[longtooth]

And I know the firearms & teaching skills of the MTICop. They had a good one.

[Keith B]

That is why I avoid other people's reloads. I never offer mine to anyone else for the same reason. And, I would never carry reloads my own for self defense. Additionally, Mas Ayoob has written a lot on the liability problems with carrying reloads.

A boy scout outing is an inappropriate place for shooting reloads. If that had been an inexperienced shooter, this post might be telling us of a disaster. As longtooth commented, that could just as easily have been a double charge instead of a squib load. None of us are perfect, we should keep our reloads to ourselves.

Per the OP, the kids were not shooting the pistol or the reloads, it was two NRA certified instructors, so IMO no issue with the kids there.

Anyone who reloads enough has had a squib or two in their career. I actually had a double charge when I used to reload. Luckily it was a .38 and shot out of a .357, so no issue. At that time I was shooting between 300 - 500 rounds a week for practice and about 200 on the weekend during competition and bowling pin matches.

[TDDude]

I've had what seemed to be double charges wth factory ammo. I say seemed to be by the amount of recoil I felt compared to the rest of the box and the loudness of the bang. Thanks to that good Italian steel in my pistol, eveything held together. I've also had a couple Winchester rounds without a primer. Goofs happen and if one shoots thousands of rounds a month like I used to, the goofs surface more frequently compared to the casual shooter. ALWAYS wear safety gear!!

I hope to get into reloading very soon. I have all the gear. I just need a space and the time to build a bench.

[CainA]

Not to stray too far off topic, but since I've never gotten a bullet stuck in a barrel, how much force from a push rod or whatever you're trying to push the bullet out of the barrel with, does it take to get it out? This is more specific to a pistol barrel length 3"- 4" as opposed to a rifle.

-Cain

[Luggo1]

Not to stray too far off topic, but since I've never gotten a bullet stuck in a barrel, how much force from a push rod or whatever you're trying to push the bullet out of the barrel with, does it take to get it out? This is more specific to a pistol barrel length 3"- 4" as opposed to a rifle.

-Cain

I have used a wooden dowel of appropriate length and my bench hammer. Usually it doesn't take that much force with the hammer to get it out, I don't know how to quantify it. I just tap a lot with lighter strikes, rather than a lot of force.

[NcongruNt]

I had a squib a while back from a WWB round in my Hi-Power. I ended up making a clearing tool out of a 7" oak dowel and an empty 9mm shell casing. 5/16" should be about perfect for 9mm/.38 size barrels. I fitted the casing on the end of the dowel as a striking surface (to prevent splitting/mangling of the wood). I simply put the dowel down the barrel with the shell casing up, put the rear of the barrel on a piece of 2x4, and hit the dowel with a hammer a few times to dislodge the bullet.

I wouldn't use a push rod to do it. Something relatively close to the diameter of the barrel will ensure even force to push the bullet out and not gouge the interior of your barrel.

I actually started a thread about it when it happened to me:

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 23&t=20952" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[CompVest]

I don't see that reloads from a good reloader are any more prone to cause malfunctions then factory ammo. I have seen just as many if not more from factory ammo then I have from the reloaders I shoot with or the reload I shoot. Reloaders have the opportunity to have more control of what goes in to their ammo and how it is put together then shooters that shoot factory.

However this batch of ammo did give you an excellent teaching opportunity! Well handled.

[WildBill]

I don't see that reloads from a good reloader are any more prone to cause malfunctions then factory ammo. I have seen just as many if not more from factory ammo then I have from the reloaders I shoot with or the reload I shoot. Reloaders have the opportunity to have more control of what goes in to their ammo and how it is put together then shooters that shoot factory.

If you follow instructions and pay careful attention to what you are doing, reloads are as reliable as factory loads. Of course there are always the yahoos who know more about reloading than the bullet and powder manufacturers and think the maximum recommended load is actually a starting point. And those who watch TV, play with the dog and eat dinner the same time they are reloading a batch of their super special hot loads.

MTICop - Vigilance at the reloading bench and the range is always necessary.

[WEC]

Question: if one were to have a squib, would it be advisable to remove it toward the chamber or toward the muzzle, or would it depend on how far the bullet is down the barrel? I'm starting to get into reloading so I want to know all of the trivialities about it. Thanks!

[MTICop]

I agree that the Boy Scouts should not be allowed to shoot re-loads at their camp. That's why they did not. Also, I am very familiar with the other instructor and his skills at both shooting and re-loading. As some on this board know, I am very leary about others re-loads and don't often shoot them if they aren't mine. I trust this guy and for some reason he made a mistake with a round. However, I'm no fool. If he made a mistake with one that had no powder, he may or may not have had a double charge somewhere else. He put away the rest of the bullets and said he would take them home and check them all out. Lastly, the Boy Scouts were no where near the firing line while we were shooting and there were two other instructors standing there with them to ensure no one stepped out of the area while firing was taking place at the firing line. Sorry if I didn't explain that thoroughly in the original post. My intentions were to let everyone know about a great teaching moment and I thought I set it up to where all could see that at no time were there any experienced shooters of any kind, Boy Scouts included, near the firing line while we were shooting.

As far as the amount of force it took to remove the bullet from the barrel, I can't tell you specifically but we used the rod and a plastic hammer to get it out. We tapped it out from muzzle to chamber. That was the shortest distance to remove it. Some here may disagree with doing it that way but that's what we did. We continued to shoot, with factory ammo, and the pistol performed without issue.