I have interesting issue....I control my suite of offices about 1474 sqaure feet and 5-6 individual offices and break room. We are located in an office building groud floor. I am the Pres & CEO and I decide who comes, goes, hire, fire, etc.
I have applied for my CHL (Day 55). Sounds good if I wanted to carry concealed...however, there is an accredited University offices on the same floor as my offices some 300 feet away. Their classes are held on the floor above ours.
As I read it...we share school property (in same building) accordingly, I would/should not be able to carry concealed in my own offices should I so desire. Yall agree with my analysis?
Ok...."Deal or No Deal"...haha
My premises in same building as University....
Moderators: carlson1, Charles L. Cotton
Re: My premises in same building as University....
I agree. Unless you enter their exclusive space, you're fine.Skipper5 wrote: As I read it...we share school property (in same building) accordingly, I would/should not be able to carry concealed in my own offices should I so desire. Yall agree with my analysis?
This is an example that needs to be used when changes to the law are proposed. There are some truly ridiculous unintended consequences to the law as written. Private property like preschool and dance classes could all fall under the law, since "school" is not defined.
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Kyle Brown
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A premise is a building or a portion of a building. If you occupy space in the same building as the school, then the school occupies a portion of the building. Generally speaking, I believe you can carry in the portion of the building you lease/occupy.
Texas CHL Instructor
Paralegal Division-State Bar Of Texas
NREMT
Paralegal Division-State Bar Of Texas
NREMT
From the definition of premises in the Texas CHL handbook, Kyle has it right. You control a portion of the building which excludes it from the college's "premises," therefore you may carry in your portion of the building.IIRC, since you control that portion of the building as Pres./CEO/et., a CHL wouldn't be necessary for you to carry on those premises. But I'm not a lawyer nor a legal expert.
Carry in the Same Building
Ok...you guys have an interesting take...know I control my premises; however, I would have thought that that "University Offices" 300 feet away down hall and their classes on floor above...thought the "School" rule would supercede the premise/own control provision.Kyle Brown wrote:A premise is a building or a portion of a building. If you occupy space in the same building as the school, then the school occupies a portion of the building. Generally speaking, I believe you can carry in the portion of the building you lease/occupy.
From barres:
From the definition of premises in the Texas CHL handbook, Kyle has it right. You control a portion of the building which excludes it from the college's "premises," therefore you may carry in your portion of the building.
IIRC, since you control that portion of the building as Pres./CEO/et., a CHL wouldn't be necessary for you to carry on those premises. But I'm not a lawyer nor a legal expert.
Ha...now if I am carrying concealed- say in my office- and I need to use the Restroom ...down the hall and past the set-back entrance of the "Univerity offices"; I would definitely be in violation...So, three options I see:
1) Don't use Restroom...ouch, or,
2) Leave handgun in my safe in office, or
3) Get permission from the Director of the "University" in writing.
...last idea 4) Retire! Ideas??
//John
Is the restroom under the school's control? Talk to the building owner/super/whatever, and ask him to detail exactly what portions of the building are under whose control.
If the restrooms are common use portions of the building, then they are not, by definition a part of the school's "premises," the school simply uses them. So, unless the school is using the restrooms for an extracurricular function
, you *should* be able to carry to the restrooms.
If the restrooms are under the school's control, then you're up the creek.
There is a strip center near here that has some office for a local university. What my CHL instructor told us was that, so long as we didn't go into the university's offices, the other businesses within the building were safe (unless 30.06 posted). I am not a lawyer, but this is my understanding of the law.
PC §46.035.(f)
(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building.
This law defines the offense of Unlawful Carry of a Weapon by a CHL Holder.
Furthermore, PC §46.03 (Places Weapons are Prohibited) gives an exception in (i)(2) that the actor posessed the firearm or club at the actor's residence or place of employment.
However, I just noticed that PC §46.03 does state that the building in which a school activity is going on is prohibited, but I think the exception and the premises definition trumps this. Again, I am not a lawyer.
If the restrooms are common use portions of the building, then they are not, by definition a part of the school's "premises," the school simply uses them. So, unless the school is using the restrooms for an extracurricular function
, you *should* be able to carry to the restrooms.If the restrooms are under the school's control, then you're up the creek.
There is a strip center near here that has some office for a local university. What my CHL instructor told us was that, so long as we didn't go into the university's offices, the other businesses within the building were safe (unless 30.06 posted). I am not a lawyer, but this is my understanding of the law.
PC §46.035.(f)
(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building.
This law defines the offense of Unlawful Carry of a Weapon by a CHL Holder.
Furthermore, PC §46.03 (Places Weapons are Prohibited) gives an exception in (i)(2) that the actor posessed the firearm or club at the actor's residence or place of employment.
However, I just noticed that PC §46.03 does state that the building in which a school activity is going on is prohibited, but I think the exception and the premises definition trumps this. Again, I am not a lawyer.
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one eyed fatman
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Kyle Brown
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- Location: Galveston, Texas
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Re: Carry in the Same Building
Your may find the answer to this question in your lease. For instance, does the lease define common areas such as restrooms and is the set-back area defined as a part of the school's premise? Again, generally speaking, restrooms in buildings such as the one you describe, are common areas. Furthermore, generally speaking, leaseholders would not be required to pass through "premises" leased by another to access a common area such as a restroom.Skipper5 wrote:Ok...you guys have an interesting take...know I control my premises; however, I would have thought that that "University Offices" 300 feet away down hall and their classes on floor above...thought the "School" rule would supercede the premise/own control provision.Kyle Brown wrote:A premise is a building or a portion of a building. If you occupy space in the same building as the school, then the school occupies a portion of the building. Generally speaking, I believe you can carry in the portion of the building you lease/occupy.
From barres:
From the definition of premises in the Texas CHL handbook, Kyle has it right. You control a portion of the building which excludes it from the college's "premises," therefore you may carry in your portion of the building.
IIRC, since you control that portion of the building as Pres./CEO/et., a CHL wouldn't be necessary for you to carry on those premises. But I'm not a lawyer nor a legal expert.
Ha...now if I am carrying concealed- say in my office- and I need to use the Restroom ...down the hall and past the set-back entrance of the "Univerity offices"; I would definitely be in violation...So, three options I see:
1) Don't use Restroom...ouch, or,
2) Leave handgun in my safe in office, or
3) Get permission from the Director of the "University" in writing.
...last idea 4) Retire! Ideas??
//John
Texas CHL Instructor
Paralegal Division-State Bar Of Texas
NREMT
Paralegal Division-State Bar Of Texas
NREMT
From a legal standpoint, it is actually a very valid question and point of order that needs to be addressed.one eyed fatman wrote:This ones just to funny for me. Who owns the bathroom, the school or the suite of offices. Could you guys get real or something.
From a practical standpoint, it is probably a common area and it would be leagal to carry in the entire building except for the portion of that building directly used by the school. So stay out of their offices while you are utilizing your CHL, but otherwise you are fine.
Thanks Kalrog...think issue potentially v important.....Kalrog wrote:From a legal standpoint, it is actually a very valid question and point of order that needs to be addressed.one eyed fatman wrote:This ones just to funny for me. Who owns the bathroom, the school or the suite of offices. Could you guys get real or something.
From a practical standpoint, it is probably a common area and it would be leagal to carry in the entire building except for the portion of that building directly used by the school. So stay out of their offices while you are utilizing your CHL, but otherwise you are fine.
Fact: Restrooms are listed as public areas and not private to any individual tenant(s)....
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one eyed fatman
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Suppose you're working in a food court area and find yourself in need of the facilities. Further suppose that the only handy facilities are inside an adjoining business. Said business happens to be a 51% bar.one eyed fatman wrote:Sorry but I have to call bulltork on this one. Somebody needs a lawyer to see if it's legal to go to the bathroom? Come on, a little common sense please.From a legal standpoint, it is actually a very valid question and point of order that needs to be addressed.
Makes a difference, doesn't it?
No, you don't need a lawyer to see if it's legal to go to the bathroom, but you might to see if it's legal to go to the bathroom while armed. On the other hand, I'm glad we provided a little amusement to your life. For Skipper, though, this discussion is about his ability to legally have reasonable means to protect himself, his business, his employees, and his customers. I doubt he sees much humor in all this.one eyed fatman wrote:Sorry but I have to call bulltork on this one. Somebody needs a lawyer to see if it's legal to go to the bathroom? Come on, a little common sense please.From a legal standpoint, it is actually a very valid question and point of order that needs to be addressed.
well....humor does keep us going...but
Dear One Eyed Fatman....Yeah...know you especially find this humorous....think the concept of having to bring it up in first place somewhat humorous (the rediculous to the sublime scenario)...but come on...cut me some slack...it's a legit question. I've stated the facts and was just asking advise from other members...especially those that carry the "Senior Member" banner; please just don't conceal your intelligence.one eyed fatman wrote:Sorry but I have to call bulltork on this one. Somebody needs a lawyer to see if it's legal to go to the bathroom? Come on, a little common sense please.From a legal standpoint, it is actually a very valid question and point of order that needs to be addressed.