A State CHL Association?

[mr surveyor]

Just an idea to toss around.......

Following a few recent threads concerning license renewals, changes in legislation, etc., it became apparant that we do have the potential for a future problem. It is already obvious that there are many in our ranks of licensees as well as some instructors that are unaware of legislative changes. Fortunately, most recent changes in carry laws are on the more "relaxed" side of the spectrum, rather than more restrictive, but if future restrictive measures are taken there may be many folks caught violating laws due to unintentional ignorance.

I am going to go out on a limb and suggest there be some sort of organization for CHL's, not unlike professional organizations that keep incensees of state regulated professions informed. In my profession of land surveying, which is regulated by the State, laws tend to change periodically as current economic conditions and technologic advancements warrant. Without the flow of information from the Texas Society of Professional Surveyors (formerly Texas Surveyors Association), many of us would have no knowledge of current proposed changes in our legal responsibilities, or changes passed through legislation. I can't imagine how my professional career would have managed to progress, or stay within the law, without the steady stream of information concerning both legislative changes and technologic advancements. There are obviously many that choose to not join this organization for whatever reason, and there is no requirement to do so. With the internet bubbling over with information there are a few that go in search of knowledge on their own to stay abreast of changes. These folks, although few, are not the issue. Many others that choose not to participate in the professional organizations are either apathetic and satisfied to stew in their own ignorance, but fortunately due to the requirement of a measely 8 hours of "continuing education" per year they do get exposed to other professionals that may give them hints of what the rule of the day (or year) is. Associations, or organizations such as I described do not come without a cost. To field a political action committee, publish a news letter, promote training seminars, maintain a website, etc., does cost money.

Now, I have no idea whether CHL's would be held to any different standard (concerning forming some type of organization for informational purposes) than professional surveyors, professional engineers, lawyers, doctors, or others. The legal experts among us here can answer that. This website is the best source of information I have found for staying abreast of proposed and enacted legislation, but not all CHL's spend time on the internet (or care to). It's easy to say "it's their loss" concerning those that don't participate here, or go in search of current news concerning state firearms laws, but I contend that it's OUR loss, collectively. As was suggested in another thread, sooner or later someone that does their renewal (3rd or 5th) without a refresher course will slip up and unknowingly violate some law and be used as an example of the failure of the system. Obviously, not all CHL's will participate in an organization such as I'm suggesting, but a sufficient number might that could at least keep the others somewhat informed.

Those of you that are members of professional organizations requiring licensure may see some merit in this.

Any thoughts???


surv

(sorry for being so long winded)

[WildBill]

Just an idea to toss around ...
Any thoughts??? surv

I think it's called Texas CHL Forum, Inc.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

mr. surveyor:

You lay out a good case for the need, but I believe that our forum
is possibly the best vehicle for what you propose.

If folks are too lazy or complacent about their CHL knowledge to even
pick a screen name, or at least lurk here, an organization to which they
will need to sign up is even more work.

We have great discussions here from thoughtful, well-informed members.
Texas CHL law minutia is discussed in detail.
Defensive tactics are discussed.

I vouch for the effectivenes of this forum since I have moved from being
a handgun newbie to a much better informed citizen, cognizant of my legal
responsibilities and technical gun issues.

People who believe ignorance is bliss will continue to avoid more education.

[WildBill]

FYI, I am not talking about TexasCHLForum.com. It may not be exactly what Mr. Surveyor has in mind, but Charles Cotton has formed the Texas CHL Forum, Inc.

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... as&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Mike1951]

There has been such an organization from the beginning. I can see no benefit that has stemmed from it.

It was originally for CHL instructors and then later opened to anyone.

http://www.txchia.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IMO, not worth the dues.

[USA1]

edited for bad taste

[mr surveyor]

To keep this on a more adult level, I'll let the "badge" reference go.

For you younger guys I'll offer a bit of information. The under 30 (actually under 40) crowd does NOT have a monopoly on concealed handgun licenses. I believe the largest age population of CHL's is over 40. Most of y'all under 40 had some exposure to computers and the associated technology in middle school, if not before, or at least before high school graduation. The rest of us became computer savvy either by necessity (profession/job) or for entertainment value. I would venture a guess that there are more chl's out there that don't have the time, take the time. or even care to romp around on the internet than there are chl internet junkies. These are the folks that are slipping through the cracks when it comes to being informed. I have many chl friends in my age group that just do not care to wade through all the opinions posted on the internet while searching for qualified answers to their questions, and a couple of these guys are educators. The point is, the internet does NOT reach everyone.

And, as for the Texas CHL Forum, I think it's the Number 1 source of information and discussion on the web concerning Texas handgun laws. Still, there are many opinions stated (probably including some of mine) that may border on mis-information, or at least cloud issues. I know that Mr. Cotton, Steve, Seamus or many others with the proper knowledge will challenge blatant mis-statements, but some will always slip under the radar.

Part of the idea of a well organized "association" is to have a printed news letter for those that aren't computer savvy, and internet available downloads for those that are. Information is the key, and keeping chl holders educated is paramount to protecting our rights to carry. Printed information from a known credible source is always valuable.

I'm not suggesting re-inventing the wheel if such a service already exists, i.e. an organization that offers credible information on proposed and codified legislation, or changes in legislation regarding firearms, in printed format on a monthly, or quarterly basis. It would be of particular interest to have a clear, plain and simple translation of the legaleese into common everyday language where the reader would understand the rules. Too many of my older friends have gotten their information second or third hand from "someone that read it on the internet" and have been totally mis-informed.

And, yes, it would cost money to pay an attorney, such as Mr. Cotton, to write the reviews on the legislation, and money for preparing, printing and mailing out a news letter, but in the long run it could reach a much larger audience of current and future chl holders. The printed word can be passed from one person's hand to another's.

surv

[Liberty]

To keep this on a more adult level, I'll let the "badge" reference go.

For you younger guys I'll offer a bit of information. The under 30 (actually under 40) crowd does NOT have a monopoly on concealed handgun licenses. I believe the largest age population of CHL's is over 40. Most of y'all under 40 had some exposure to computers and the associated technology in middle school, if not before, or at least before high school graduation. The rest of us became computer savvy either by necessity (profession/job) or for entertainment value. I would venture a guess that there are more chl's out there that don't have the time, take the time. or even care to romp around on the internet than there are chl internet junkies. These are the folks that are slipping through the cracks when it comes to being informed. I have many chl friends in my age group that just do not care to wade through all the opinions posted on the internet while searching for qualified answers to their questions, and a couple of these guys are educators. The point is, the internet does NOT reach everyone.

And, as for the Texas CHL Forum, I think it's the Number 1 source of information and discussion on the web concerning Texas handgun laws. Still, there are many opinions stated (probably including some of mine) that may border on mis-information, or at least cloud issues. I know that Mr. Cotton, Steve, Seamus or many others with the proper knowledge will challenge blatant mis-statements, but some will always slip under the radar.

Part of the idea of a well organized "association" is to have a printed news letter for those that aren't computer savvy, and internet available downloads for those that are. Information is the key, and keeping chl holders educated is paramount to protecting our rights to carry. Printed information from a known credible source is always valuable.

I'm not suggesting re-inventing the wheel if such a service already exists, i.e. an organization that offers credible information on proposed and codified legislation, or changes in legislation regarding firearms, in printed format on a monthly, or quarterly basis. It would be of particular interest to have a clear, plain and simple translation of the legaleese into common everyday language where the reader would understand the rules. Too many of my older friends have gotten their information second or third hand from "someone that read it on the internet" and have been totally mis-informed.

And, yes, it would cost money to pay an attorney, such as Mr. Cotton, to write the reviews on the legislation, and money for preparing, printing and mailing out a news letter, but in the long run it could reach a much larger audience of current and future chl holders. The printed word can be passed from one person's hand to another's.

surv

It doesn't take long to get information cleared up on this forum and it shouldn't be difficult to figure out who has the best information. There will always be the grey fuzzy lines but even the experts won't be able to always agree on these, and it should be pretty obvious to most of us that even the DAs and courts can have different thoughts on what the law really means. I believe that we have the greatest collection of experts that could be assembled on Texas CHL issues right here. A few of them have a national reputation on what they speak of. I can't imagine their being another organization at getting the information out. There are those who aren't professionally as well known and respected outside our forum community who are as knowledgeble and clear thinking as anyone that will be found anywhere else. For the joiner types I suppose there is the TSRA who does a great job handling CHLoissues and is our main advocates in the Texas Legislator. This forum is very effective at getting phonecalls out when the TSRA pulls the trigger and gives us the go ahead.

My biggest concerns of such an organisztion would be that it would be a risk at splintering our community such as the series of events and hard feelings that resulted with opencarry.org.

Texas CHL forum inc. is an attempt at forming an organization that that among other things intends to get out projects such as the Chas. Cotton's Deadly Force Seminars. I believe that the only realistic way of attempting to do what you are asking is through either the TSRA, or this forum. I also don't believe it is possible today for those who are internet wary to be counted as among the well informed. Anyone can put out a pamphlet but, while any one can malformed suggestions and incorrect facts, It will not happen without being challenged and corrected. If these folks can't find and wade through this forum, I doubt they will be able to find out about another gun organization.

[mr surveyor]

So, is it too much to ask for the printed word in hard copy concerning legislative updates? I would think that reaching all firearms enthusiasts, particularly those concerned with concealed carry issues would be an important topic.

And I wouldn't want to be the one to suggest that those folks in their 50's, 60's and 70's (or older) are lazy, complacent or otherwise flawed because they have no desire to spend their time in front of a computer monitor.

[Liberty]

So, is it too much to ask for the printed word in hard copy concerning legislative updates? I would think that reaching all firearms enthusiasts, particularly those concerned with concealed carry issues would be an important topic.

And I wouldn't want to be the one to suggest that those folks in their 50's, 60's and 70's (or older) are lazy, complacent or otherwise flawed because they have no desire to spend their time in front of a computer monitor.

There is nothing wrong with making a the pamphlet, in fact anyone motivated to do so could do that, Its a new CHL organization that I don't believe would work out. Seeing as though I'm quickly aproaching my 60's I have no problem saying that anyone who doesn't use the internet isn't going to be well informed. I don't believe it makes them lazy or complacent. In fact I believe the only way to practically get such a pamphlet out is to distribute it primarialy on the interweb.

A good deal of my family is 50 and over and we are all internet savy, and keep in touch over web services and email. While we as group aren't very good at texting on cell. Its been my observation the us older people use the net more than the 20 and 30 somethings. Everyones experiences are different and my family mostly would hesitate to to be allowed being called the norm, but I do find it funny when my generation is spoken of as non-internet savvy, after all it was our generation that invented and built most of it.

Doesn't the TSRA publish the a report in print form of the changes and what they mean.

[Charles L. Cotton]

I hope to make an announcement on this subject in the next 10 days to 2 weeks. As Liberty mentioned, TexasCHLforum, Inc. was created as an education and advocacy organization to do much of what Mr. Surveryor suggests. The 2009 Texas Legislative Session pretty much brought all work on that project to a halt, even to the point that I don't want to deposit the checks people sent for membership dues and donations. I didn't want other people's money sitting in a bank account not doing any good. (I need to mail those checks back.)

Chas.

[boomerang]

Doesn't the TSRA publish the a report in print form of the changes and what they mean.

I think DPS publishes a new pamphlet every 2 years after the laws change. ftp://ftp.txdps.state.tx.us/forms/ls-16.pdf

[LaserTex]

[I think DPS publishes a new pamphlet every 2 years after the laws change. ftp://ftp.txdps.state.tx.us/forms/ls-16.pdf[/quote]

WOW! Every 2 years? Glad the laws don't change that much...........................(can you see the "sarcasm dots?"

Doug

[Mike1951]

[I think DPS publishes a new pamphlet every 2 years after the laws change. ftp://ftp.txdps.state.tx.us/forms/ls-16.pdf

WOW! Every 2 years? Glad the laws don't change that much...........................(can you see the "sarcasm dots?"

Doug

Because the legislature only meets every other year.

[Greybeard]

Oh yeah, DPS publishes that "pamphlet" every two years. If we are lucky, they are available around January, with law changes that went into effect the prior Sept. 1. Last time, in application packets, they did include a couple of typewritten pages recapping the Legislative changes in 2007 - but, just like in the instructor renewal schools, it did NOT include diddly on Senate Bill 378 - MAJOR changes to Sections 9.31 and 9.32.