Church Carry

[Wisewr]

At the end of the Texas Concealed Handgun Laws book, it has a FAQ section and one question is "Where can I not carry my handgun?" Part of the answer to the question is "You may not carry handguns in hospitals or nursing homes, amusement parks, places of worship or at government meetings if signs are posted prohibiting them."

The discussion is there are two ways to read this. One is you cannot carry any of the places except for goverment meetings where signs are not posted. The other is you can carry any of these places as long as signs are not posted. Which is the proper interpretation? I feel like this sentence says you can carry all of these places as long as there is no 30.06 sign posted. But, in the Texas Concealed Handgun Laws book, on page 40 under the "UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER" section, it seems pretty clear that you cannont carry in a church or similar place of worship. It says nothing about signage needing to be posted.

So which is it, and if someone has some actual documentation that would be great. Because I don't want to site someones word on TexasCHLForum.com as my main defense.

[seamusTX]

Welcome to the forum.

Check out PC 46.035(i). Very easily overlooked.

- Jim

[hheremtp]

you can carry in most of the above, here is the statute for your reference.

PC w6.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder carries a handgun on or about the license holdets person
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally,
knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority
of Subchapter H. Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of
whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's
person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued
under Chapter 25,28,32,69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if
the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or
service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as deter40
PCw.035. TEXAS CONCEALED HANDGUN LAWS
mined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section
104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional
sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless
the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used
in the event;
(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;
(4) on the premises of a,hospital licensed under Chapter 241.
Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed
under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license
holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home

now note the following at the end of the section.

(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor
was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.
(j) Subsections (a) and (b)(l) do not apply to a historical reenactment
performed in compliance with the rules of the Texas Alcoholic
Beverage Commission.
administration, as appropriate;
(5) in an amusement park; or
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established
place of religious worship.

you can find this section on pg 40-41in the CHL handbook

[Wisewr]

Thanks for the fast responses. I guess I needed to be a little more thorough in my reading. Thanks!

[Keith B]

Thanks for the fast responses. I guess I needed to be a little more thorough in my reading. Thanks!

Welcome to the forum Harvey!

Don't feel like the Lone Ranger, this is probably the most common mistake made by new, and even seasoned CHL holders who didn't get the message in class or missed the subtle addition of (i).

For a little history, the law was originally written banning carry in hospitals, churches, amusement parks, and meetings of governmental entities. When they amended the statute to require that those locations had to be posted 30.06 to prohibit carry, they took an easy approach and added section (i). Kinda makes it confusing and very easy to overlook.

Glad to have you with us and enjoy the forum. A lot of great information and members here!

[Abraham]

Maybe I'm in the minority - but, when I attempt to read law pertaining to CHL holders, I'm instantly confused as to what I just read.

It all comes across as gobbledegook to me, thus when someone references a specific law to enlighten me, it's of no use as I may as well be instructed to read Egyptian hieroglyphics.

Much like the insurance companies were made to render their language comprehensible to their customers - so should laws be written for easy understandability.

[seamusTX]

Seriously, some laws are complicated, but we can understand them by breaking them down, similar to diagramming a sentence (do they still teach that?).

All penal laws are similar. "A person commits an offense if the person does X," where X is an action or series of actions.

Nearly all penal laws include the elements of "intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly." Sometimes "or with criminal negligence" is added. All these terms are defined in the penal code.

Then you have exceptions, which are circumstances where the law does not apply, and defenses, which are circumstances that can be used as a defense if you are prosecuted for breaking the law.

I sometimes copy the law into a text editor and break it down line by line, underlining the key words that determine the core meaning of the law.

If you think Texas state law is bad, try federal law.

- Jim

[Abraham]

Jim,

Therein lies the rub.

You have to be able to decode and make comprehensible these laws. The effort to understand this arcana requires an aptitude I don't possess.

Plus, it often seems even lawyers interpret the very same law with different meanings. So, someone with my lack of talent in this arena is left in the dark.

I'm terrible when it comes to algebra too...

[Wisewr]

Maybe I'm in the minority - but, when I attempt to read law pertaining to CHL holders, I'm instantly confused as to what I just read.

It all comes across as gobbledegook to me, thus when someone references a specific law to enlighten me, it's of no use as I may as well be instructed to read Egyptian hieroglyphics.

Much like the insurance companies were made to render their language comprehensible to their customers - so should laws be written for easy understandability.

I guess that is kinda the reason the question came up originally. Like I said in the first post, in the back of the hand book where all the FAQ's are, one was "Where can I not carry my handgun?" Part of the answer to the question is "You may not carry handguns in hospitals or nursing homes, amusement parks, places of worship or at government meetings if signs are posted prohibiting them." Some of us out here at work thought that posting a sign was only neseccary for goverment meetings, not all the others. The rest of us, me included, thought it included all of the places mentioned. So Abraham, I guess I'm with you in a sense. Some of the language sounds confusing, but the actual section of the law that seamusTX and hherempt quoted was managable enough for me to understand.

[seamusTX]

You have to be able to decode and make comprehensible these laws. The effort to understand this arcana requires an aptitude I don't possess.

Well, everyone has their cross to bear. I'm never going to play golf or a musical instrument.

- Jim

[Keith B]

You have to be able to decode and make comprehensible these laws. The effort to understand this arcana requires an aptitude I don't possess.

Well, everyone has their cross to bear. I'm never going to play golf or a musical instrument.
- Jim

I actually do all three (interpret laws (IANAL), play golf and musical instruments.) However I am not very good at any of the three.

[DoubleActionCHL]

Section 46.035(i) is a pet peeve of mine, and I make a big deal over it in my classes. I give my class homework during the lunch break, and the big question covers 46.035(i). It's rare that someone actually catches that when reading the statute for the first time.

[geoelectro]

Yep! I learned about it right here on this forum!



Geoelectro