I'm a hypocrite

[jmorris]

Week ago last Saturday I went to the gun show at Freeman Coliseum in San Antonio. On the way out I passed a Ford truck display for Red McCombs. The salesman asked if he could give me a free gift. I told him it wouldn't do him any good and he asked why. I said I wasn't allowed in their showroom. He looked perplexed and again asked why. I told him, I have a CHL and I always carry, your showroom is posted 30.06 and I'm not allowed in. He looked at a loss for words and I walked away.

Then I realized just what a hypocrite I was. I had just left the gun show, which was posted 30.06, and for which I unholstered and left the weapon in the vehicle, just to see if I could get some good deals.

So, no more 30.06 gun shows for me.

Zip tying is not an option. One is asked if one has magazines or ammo. I won't lie, so I can't carry that in.

Thanks for listening, just cleansing the soul.

[dicion]

The law makes no difference on whether a concealed handgun is loaded, unloaded, or zip-tied.

Technically, carrying a concealed zip-tied handgun is just as illegal as carrying a loaded one past a 30.06 sign... (if the 30.06 sign is actually valid, which on a lot of places that host gun shows, it is not)

... figure that one out.

[txmatt]

I thought there was some provision in either the law or in case law that allowed for the carry of handguns in/to places like ranges and gun shops. Seems like a zip tied handgun at a gunshow would fall under the same legal protection.

[Mike1951]

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS.

Sec. 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY.
.....
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
(4) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;

Hunting, shooting ranges, yes.

Gun shops, gun shows, nope. Not unless you can convince them the gun show is a sporting activity.

Remember that the officers at the door are not working in their LE capacity. They are hired security to enforce the rules of the show promoter. It would not be well received if violators were arrested.

[dicion]

Plus, also do not forget. When you are carrying under CHL, you are exempt from TPC 46.02 completely. It no longer applies to you at all already.

§ 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY.
...
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
...
(6) is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is carrying;

CHL law makes no determination between loaded, unloaded, zip tied, rusted shut, etc. If you're carrying it, and it's concealed, it's a concealed weapon.
Zip tying it before entering the show doesn't make it any more legal. If it's legal to carry in the show zip-tied, it's legal to carry in the show loaded.
Similarly, if it's illegal in the show, due to a proper 30.06 sign, and non-government owned property, then it's illegal whether its loaded, or zip tied.

[txmatt]

You honestly believe, chl aside, that it is illegal to carry a handgun to a gun shop? Must also be illegal to carry one from a gun shop as well then. So everyone carrying a (zip-tied) handgun at the gunshow is violating the law? Or just CHLs who happen to carry their zip-tied handgun in a manner not plainly visible, but not a non-CHL doing exactly the same thing? I don't have the resources to search case law for this but I find that doubtful and even if technically true would be, I imagine, unenforceable.

[Kevinf2349]

Now let me get this straight here.

You go into the gun show. Get your weapon zip tied. Carry it into the show and that is illegal?

You go to the gun show, purchase a weapon, they hand you it in a box (therefore concealed) and that is illegal too?

So how do you get a gun purchase 'out the door' without carrying it? Kick it out?

[shootthesheet]

I agree completely and I would let those who put on the event know why I would not be back. Some of us drive across town to avoid shopping at a posted store and yet these same people support those who claim to be on our side and then deny us our ability to carry. I have much more respect for a hostile business that restricts our carry than I do for any gun related business that does the same. Don't tell me your my friend and then slap me in the face! It is going to take more of us making a decision to boycott these gun shows/stores and telling them why to change things.

[mr.72]

Certainly the law is quite contradictory and unenforceable.

But yet, it is selectively enforced.

I would appreciate if someone who knows the reference in the law that makes it an exception to 46.02 to carry a handgun ANYWHERE without a CHL, besides to your car (but not from your car) and in your car. Or in checked baggage once the handgun is claimed as such in checked baggage in the secure area of an airport, etc.

But I see no exclusion for carrying a handgun into or out of a gun store, gun show, etc. So once you buy a handgun and they hand it to you over the counter, then maybe the MPA exemption allows you to carry it to your car and in your car without a CHL and once you park your car on your own property then you can of course carry it into your home but then you have to break ranks with the law if you want to take it to a gun show or gun smith or really anywhere without a CHL.

I realized this the other day when I was on a friend's private property where he has a firing range, and my kids and I were shooting and it occurred to me that I was not on my own property and I was definitely guilty of intentional failure to conceal.

I'm telling you, what needs to happen to fix this law is the repeal of whatever in the law makes it an offense to carry a handgun. Anything else makes no sense.

[Embalmo]

Guys,

Okay I've never read the law about carrying in and out of stores, (if there is one) but it certainly seems like you are technically open, or concealed carrying on your way to your car, even at Academy and Cabela's where they walk you out of the store.

I'm guessing if the law actually had written exceptions to address gun store comings and goings, people would exploit it as a loophole and walk around in a constant state of buying or selling their gun. Still, activist judges, cops, and villagers might one day target gun stores by arresting their patrons on the way out.

Embalmo

[mr.72]

Guys,

Okay I've never read the law about carrying in and out of stores, (if there is one) but it certainly seems like you are technically open, or concealed carrying on your way to your car, even at Academy and Cabela's where they walk you out of the store.

Bingo!

And what's asinine about the law as it is written is that it is only prohibited to do these things with a HANDGUN but with a long gun, you can carry it wherever you like right out in the open.

It's a dumb law, totally unenforceable, but one of those things that pretty much no matter what happens if someone is in possession of a "handgun", without a CHL, they can be charged with a crime if they are anywhere but their own property or in their own car, even if it is while they walk out the door of a gun store to their car with a brand new gun still in the factory packaging.

And you make a good point that if they really wanted to enact a gun seizure with existing law, it would be perfectly legal for them to stop everyone coming out of any gun dealer and arrest them. Heck, they could probably find a way to arrest all of the gun store employees except for the manager or owner as well.

[wheelgun1958]

Back to the premise of the thread, I agree that a gunshow that is posted doesn't want my business. Maybe droopy drawers will buy their stuff.

[Abraham]

jmorris,

I understand your concern about being a hypocrite, but I don't think you are per se.

You have the right to be selective where and when you're willing to be disarmed.

Galling as it may be, there are times when you have to go places that don't allow CHL carrying, (granted you don't have to go to gun shows - there are time you do have to go to court as a juror, schools, etc.) but, places of business that place this obstacle in your way don't have a right to your patronage.

I think you did the right thing regarding the auto salesman. That you're willing to be selective about when you will disarm for another venue is your right. That's not being hypocritical. That's being selective.

[mr.72]

I am no gun-show regular but the few I have been to in Austin have all been posted. I understand that it is common in TX for gun shows to be posted. It's also common for me to not go.

However I wouldn't refer to this as hypocrisy. It's always a matter of weighing the benefits vs. risks. I submit that regardless of the 30.06 posting, violent crime from armed criminals during gun shows in the gun show venue is probably very scarce. However, I also suggest that the risks may be much higher in the parking lot of said gun shows. So it's a balance of risks. Once you are inside the venue, the chances of getting victimized are probably pretty slim considering that guns are just a reload away from being pressed into service by any show-goer.

However, if you are going into a store just to browse for something and not committed to buying, then the 30.06 sign may well keep you out. If your chances of getting a supremely great deal (like, if your name ends in "s" you get a free car! or some such deal) then I suppose most of us will happily disarm for such a deal. And then there are some places you won't go no matter whether they are posted or not, because the risk is just too high (such as most of East Austin for me). And there are some places where you will go disarmed regardless of the policy because the risk of not going is too high (such as the ER, or a court house for jury duty, etc.).

I don't think it's hypocrisy, but just plain old reason. And in this day and time, gun shows probably don't hold so much promise of the killer deal that they flip the go-no-go bit for those of us with even moderate feelings with respect to 30.06 sign discrimination. If you knew that there was going to be a table with $100 police trade-in G19s you'd disarm and go in in a rush. No hypocrisy in that. Just a change of the balance.

[jmorris]

Where the hypocrisy occurs is in that what I told the salesman implies that I won't go in anywhere posted 30.06, but yet I just did. It's not being selective, it's violating a principle of mine.

If zip tying I would not conceal, but without having mags and ammo what does it matter?