Question that was asked on another forum

[Mike from Texas]

I saw this asked on another forum that I visit. I believe I know the correct answer and how I would respond but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Question - Can a LEO walk up to you in a public place and ask if you are carrying?

Story -
Friend of mine here in Houston was meeting some people at a popular mexican food place for a few drinks and dinner. Well it was raining outside and he had on a 3/4 sleeve golf jacket zipped up. Well, while in the bar area of the restaurant having a cold frosty beverage he left his jacket zipped up. He was on his cell phone when a Sheriffs deputy comes up in uniform and ask if he is carrying? He is still on the phone and ask why.... the LEO gets peeved and demands he answers the question... he ask why again and now the LEO is really mad. My buddy gets off the phone and holds his hands above his head and says no and do you want to check. LEO states that everything is cool. My buddy ask him why he even asked and said because he had his jacket on and zipped up and drinking a beverage. My buddy explained that he did not want to set anywhere and forget it. LEO just walks off no explanation.

Now if I remember correctly during my CHL class they can not ask you unless they can see it under your clothes. (I could be wrong)

Is this something that can happen?

[Keith B]

A LEO must have reasonable suspicion that you are breaking the law before they can approach you. At that point they can request your identification or ask you questions. You always have the right to refuse to answer any questions, but it may escalate the situation. Most times it is best to just appease the LEO and answer his question and move on (right or wrong) then address the issue if it was a rights violation after things have de-escalated.

[srothstein]

An LEO can walk up and ask you anything at any time. They are just like any other citizen who could do the same thing. And, just like any other citizen, you can legally ignore them or refuse to answer.

The only time you legally have to answer any questions from an LEO is to provide your name, date of birth, and home address when you are arrested. You can be compelled by a court to answer anything that would not tend to incriminate you (which does include incriminating statements if the prosecution has granted immunity), but that is not an LEO on the street. You may not be able to lie about things either, but there is no compelling reason to answer.

Now, as pointed out in other threads, the tactics of answering and being polite versus saying no are a different discussion. This is just the legality of it.

[The Annoyed Man]

You may not be able to lie about things either, but there is no compelling reason to answer

IIRC, wasn't Martha Stewart prosecuted, convicted, and imprisoned for lying to investigators about what she did, but not actually for the thing she lied about?

[Oldgringo]

I saw this asked on another forum that I visit. I believe I know the correct answer and how I would respond but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Question - Can a LEO walk up to you in a public place and ask if you are carrying?

Yes. The LEO can also ask if that's your car, dog, wife, kid, etc.,etc.

[ninemm]

Maybe I missed something. Is there something wrong with carrying in that situation? I would be peeved if I was outed by a LEO based on what this one claimed was his reason for suspicion.

[flb_78]

Maybe I missed something. Is there something wrong with carrying in that situation? I would be peeved if I was outed by a LEO based on what this one claimed was his reason for suspicion.

+1

unless the "bar area" has a separate liquor license, I see no reason for the officer to even ask.

I probably would have answered with "Carrying what?"

[davidtx]

Maybe I missed something. Is there something wrong with carrying in that situation? I would be peeved if I was outed by a LEO based on what this one claimed was his reason for suspicion.

He was drinking - and that brings us back to that other discussion.

[casingpoint]

The cop must have a reasonably articulable suspicion of a crime in progress to make a inquiry. A guy at a bar on a cold rainy day drinking a beer with his jacket zipped up is not sufficiently out of the ordinary to arouse suspicion in a normal person.

Of course, if you aren't doing anything against the law, you won't object to the questions and maybe even a search. So if you are a "good person," you need not be concerned about "your rights."

Sometimes I think they teach this line of "logic" at police academies.

[srothstein]

Casingpoint, I think you are misreading the decision from Terry. The cop can always walk up and ask anything he wants, just like a salesman can ask you anything he wants. And just like the salesman, you cna ignore him and walk away.

Based on Terry v. Ohio, a cop with a reasonable and articulable suspicion may also detain you for investigative purposes. but nothing is required to ask without detaining.

[gigag04]

Casingpoint, I think you are misreading the decision from Terry. The cop can always walk up and ask anything he wants, just like a salesman can ask you anything he wants. And just like the salesman, you cna ignore him and walk away.

Based on Terry v. Ohio, a cop with a reasonable and articulable suspicion may also detain you for investigative purposes. but nothing is required to ask without detaining.

My Rothstein, thank you for clarifying for everyone. He can also pat you down for weapons if he feels you may be a danger to him...AND he can check the lunge area of the vehicle if he is going to release it to you....or the lunge area of the house...but now we're getting into Chimmel. And I know you already know all of this so I'll digress

Of course, if you aren't doing anything against the law, you won't object to the questions and maybe even a search. So if you are a "good person," you need not be concerned about "your rights."

Sometimes I think they teach this line of "logic" at police academies.

They teach nothing of the sort. We did however spend quite some time researching the impact of being federally prosecuted under 18 USC 241 and 242... believe it or not there are actually quite a bunch of restrictions on how peace officers interact with the public. Your rights are alive and well in this regard. (2A is a diff story).

[casingpoint]

Sorry, poor choice of words on my part, as is often the case . Reckon I was thinking a cop wouldn't ask someone a question without some degree of suspicion, but of course they will do just that.

I guess it gets down to are you free to go or not. Just turn and walk away and see what happens next. You will soon find out if you are being detained for investigation. Or what side of the bed the cop got out on that day.

I'd say at the point where the LEO "demanded" answers, the guy in the jacket was effectively detained.


Wonder where this conversation would lead:

Cop: "Do you have a gun under your windbreaker?

Guy in jacket: "I don't know, officer.

[C-dub]

I probably would have answered with "Carrying what?"

That's me too.

[longtooth]

casingpoint wrote:
Of course, if you aren't doing anything against the law, you won't object to the questions and maybe even a search. So if you are a "good person," you need not be concerned about "your rights."

Sometimes I think they teach this line of "logic" at police academies.


This is why we have the 4th. This statement goes all the way back to the British knocking on doors for a search & "if you have not done anything wrong & have nothing to hide then........

That is why refusing permission to search is not probable cause for a search or a warent.