Note for Dallas gangstas

[KBCraig]

We should expect neon paint and reflective tape to become a style statement amongst Dallas gangstas and other criminals.

Hey, that's the route I would take!

Check out the one dissenting vote, and his reasoning. Not what you'd expect.

DMN article

Dallas may drop the hammer on toy guns

Safety panel vote puts city closer to adopting strict ordinance

11:10 PM CDT on Monday, August 7, 2006

By DAVE LEVINTHAL / The Dallas Morning News

They're Americana slipped into the holsters of little boys in cowboy hats.

But after a 7-1 vote by the City Council's public safety committee, Dallas is closer than ever to passing one of the nation's strictest ordinances regulating the sale and possession of toy guns.

The committee directed City Attorney Tom Perkins to craft an ordinance that would ban all toy guns except those painted a bright color, such as hot pink or neon green, or made of transparent or translucent material.

The toys would also have to reflect light.

Toy guns that don't fit the city's paint/reflection criteria would be illegal even if kept inside a private home or vehicle, council members said.

"I would have liked to see the city absolutely outlaw toy look-alike replica guns, but to get anything progressive done in this part of the country is significant," said the Rev. Peter Johnson, who through the community activism organization Weed & Seed has advocated banning toy guns locally.

Dallas should model its proposal after New York City's toy-gun ordinance, regarded as one of the country's most stringent, the committee told Mr. Perkins. A small percentage of municipalities, including Plano, have also further regulated toy guns beyond a federal provision requiring toy makers to place an orange cap over gun barrels.

In recent months, many Dallas residents have expressed concern over what they say is children's easy access to inexpensive replica firearms, especially since numerous ice cream vendors and bazaar and flea market retailers sell the toys.

In recent years, police and private citizens throughout the nation have shot several children brandishing toy firearms after believing their own lives were in danger.

The council committee added the light-reflection provision after Dallas Police Deputy Chief Mike Genovesi testified that "under bad lighting, I don't know if the color is going to make any difference."

The committee didn't specify whether the paint itself should be reflective or whether reflective materials, such as a reflector on a bicycle spoke, would suffice.

Council member Mitchell Rasansky, who cast the lone vote against council member James Fantroy's motion, said the proposed ordinance doesn't go far enough.

"I want a total ban on these, period, etched in stone," Mr. Rasansky said.

Some council members worried, however, that a complete toy-gun ban would invite legal challenges that may delay enforcement.

"There isn't an awful lot of law on that at this point," Mr. Perkins said of a complete ban, noting that courts have affirmed the legality of New York City's ordinance. "It is possible. It has not been tested."

Said Mr. Rasansky: "I don't want to wait until two kids die."

The committee did not discuss specific penalties for selling or possessing toy guns. At the meeting's outset, Mr. Perkins presented the council committee with options that included prohibiting people from obscuring guns' orange tips and a total toy-gun sale and possession ban.

For Suzanna Reese, a supervisor at the Toys "R" Us at Dallas' Southwest Center Mall, any such toy-gun ban probably wouldn't affect the store.

"We just carry ray guns and laser guns," Ms. Reese said, adding that her store hasn't sold realistic-looking toy firearms for about five years.

As general manager of Collectible Trains and Toys in Dallas, Mike Belden has traded a vintage toy pistol here and there while tending to his primary business: trains.

He said he appreciates what council members are attempting to accomplish, as "a lot of the toy guns they sell now are strikingly realistic."

If Dallas regulates toy-gun sales and possession, Mr. Belden said he hopes council members would include a provision exempting collectibles.

"I grew up in an area where, if you didn't have twin six-shooters, there was something wrong with you," he said. "A ban like this would definitely be an issue for kids my age – I'm 57. These guns are neat, nostalgic items, and you're looking at basically criminalizing nostalgia."

[Houston1944]

The next ordinance should be to require all Dallas city council members to have bright red reflective tape on their forehead. That would make it easier for the public to recognize the village idiots.
I do not believe we are shooting 6 year olds with toy guns on a regular basis. The real purpose of this law is only to protect a few of the 16 and older bangers, and others that try to use fake guns to rob and terrorize innocent folks. Why do they need protecting? I will never understand how our number one priority in this country became the goal to protect stupid people from themselves.
The next question is how many of you are going to hesitate to shoot an adult looking individual that points a neon green handgun at you and threatens you and your family?

[longtooth]

good post, Good Post, GOOD POST. The GBers are carrying those so they can frighten good citizens who do not know the difference between a real & toy gun, but not get arrested. When a teenager points a toy gun at a law abiding citizen & says give me your wallet or come w/ me girl, they are not children & do not need to be protected. They need to be arrested & put in Huntsville State Prison. Yes showing my age. HSP was nothing like TDC.

[The Marshal]

{sarcastic, useless reply scraped off screen and thrown in trash. What was I thinking?!}

~Bill

[Crossfire]

I use a Walther P99 replica toy gun as a demo when I teach CHL classes. I guess that would make me a criminal in Dallas.

One more reason that "Life's Too Short to Live in Dallas".

[kw5kw]

Will people think that the OD green M1911A's are toys?

[cyphur]

I think its a good law, only because now when kids paint their toy guns(like they've been doing) or something along those lines, and point it in my face, I have more of an affirmative defense. It showed premeditation on the BGs part and it also shows that they aren't "some kid".

I think kids need to take responsibility for their actions and to circumvent a law such as this should carry somewhat stiff penalties - ie many many hours of community service for minors if they're just caught running about with it - however if they commit a crime using a toy gun that has been altered then it should be much stiffer.

[HighVelocity]

Now any gang member can take a can of neon orange spray paint to a real firearm, stick it in a Toy store bag and walk around with it in plain sight. I think this is a really bad idea.

We've gone from "assume everything that looks like a gun is a gun" to "if it's a bright color, it's not a gun". This logic is extremely flawed.

[sparx]

Said Mr. Rasansky: "I don't want to wait until two kids die."

I would say "Good! Then use that mouth of yours to spread the news to your community that if they're stupid enough to use a toy gun in a crime, then they're instantly qualified under the Darwin theory to whatever happens next."

I fully agree Houston1944 and longtooth. I can't believe that we are allowing the village idiots out there to shape the world in a fashion that THEY deem best for everyone. I grew up with chrome-plated plastic six-shooter cap guns on my hips... in today's world I would be taken to JV for it. THAT is ridiculous. The person that needs to be there should be the kid that tries to use one of them to commit a crime, not the kid playing Cops and Robbers or Cowboys and Indians in their yard.

Make the crime a crime, not the item used to commit it with!!!

Will people think that the OD green M1911A's are toys?

That's what will happen next. Just take a look at what's happening in New York and Bloomberg's antics with wanting to outlaw the painting of real guns different colors with Duracoat.

I think its a good law, only because now when kids paint their toy guns(like they've been doing) or something along those lines, and point it in my face, I have more of an affirmative defense. It showed premeditation on the BGs part and it also shows that they aren't "some kid".

I think kids need to take responsibility for their actions and to circumvent a law such as this should carry somewhat stiff penalties - ie many many hours of community service for minors if they're just caught running about with it - however if they commit a crime using a toy gun that has been altered then it should be much stiffer.

OK in theory, but it won't happen. They'll just continue to make excuses for poor Johnny or poor Jamal or poor José or poor <pick a name, whatever ethnicity you want as it doesn't matter... there's trash everywhere>. Remember, it's not their fault, but the circumstances which they've had to deal with in their lives that are fully responsible for their actions (or so these nut cases want us to believe). I believe that God granted us the will to choose our actions for ourselves. If we choose unwisely we should fully expect to pay for that choice sooner or later, which will happen if we don't mend our ways.

Sorry for the rant... but I just get quite irritated when I see our country, states, cities and localities go to you-know-where in a hand basket because of stupid, illogical, silly, egocentric and self-promoting politicians and bureaucrats.

</rant>

Edit: Fixed a few grammatical errors.

[longtooth]

RANT I didn't hear a rant. Did you hear a rant Only truth is all I heard. Flyem at the same height.

[cyphur]

sparx, I completely agree with you - I guess my post was wishful thinking.


I grew up running around my yard and my neighbors yards with toy guns, whether it was a M9 look alike, or a six shooter(yea, they have those in NY too) or a super soaker or a M16-type - nobody cared! We all had fun and it kept us out of real trouble.


People are trying to patch things up instead of fixing the real problem. If kids didn't rob stores or point guns at strangers - then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Before a few years ago I never would have thought twice about a 10 year old playing with a toy gun in the street - but now it prompts a condition response

[carlson1]

What was Reasonable and Prudent? Don't ask the Dallas City Counsel. Years ago I thought the disraceful show of Jerry Springer was fake, then I realized it was actually counsel members

[KBCraig]

Here are some "toys" for them. I wonder if they'd pass the test?










This one even has stickers on it (being sported by a Texas CHL):

[sparx]

People are trying to patch things up instead of fixing the real problem. If kids didn't rob stores or point guns at strangers - then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Before a few years ago I never would have thought twice about a 10 year old playing with a toy gun in the street - but now it prompts a condition response

Exactly. It wasn't that long ago that news of a 10 year old holding up a liquor store at gunpoint would have brought the bull hammer down on our heads, but in today's world it's almost commonplace. That is sad, but the only way to get us back to where we belong might be to quite "patching" things and just reverse course! A foundation of clay will not give us the stability we need, no matter how many shims we try to put under the house. Sometimes it's better to just rip it up back to bedrock and start over with the knowledge of what went wrong the first time so it doesn't get repeated the second time.

[sparx]

Here are some "toys" for them. I wonder if they'd pass the test?

That's some of the best "urban cammo" I've ever seen! Those stickers add that "special" touch that you just don't see much of, but are most effective!