Cooperation versus Adjudication - DB380

[rpecunia]

Diamondback's DB380, a new pocket pistol design, is being given accolades as well as criticism...

There appears to be a critical mass of complaints - numerous ones claim design flaws, improper materials, etc. - there is PLENTY of evidence across the internet about these defects and multiple repairs in process - some owners having sent their gun back to the manufacturer more than twice even over the last few months !!!

Question: How do we get Diamondback to proactively recall or make a more "official" committment to resolving these issues - either correct the gun and bring the gun's reliability up or refund the purchase price or provide other acceptable proposal !?

Goal here is to determine how to get DB to cooperate with the base of initial customers who have become vocal and dissatisfied...

**Not a professional in the legal business, but know there are plenty of forum members that are - what are your thoughts with regards to this manufacturer's responsibility ?!

[seamusTX]

Here is the Diamond DB380 warranty:

This warranty is granted by DIAMONDBACK FIREARMS, LLC, Cocoa, FL. This lifetime warranty is effective from the date of purchase and applies to the original owner of a DIAMONDBACK FIREARMS Pistol.

DIAMONDBACK FIREARMS handguns are warranted to be free from defects in material and workmanship. Any such defects of which DIAMONDBACK FIREARMS receives written notice by the original owner, will be remedied by DIAMONDBACK FIREARMS without charge within a reasonable time after such notification and delivery of handgun as provided below.

Warranty claims (in writing) and the gun concerned should be delivered (transportation
charges prepaid) to:
Diamondback Firearms, LLC
Service Dept.
4135 Pine Tree Pl.
Cocoa, FL 32926

http://www.diamondbackfirearms.com/manuals/DB380.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A warranty is a contract between the buyer and seller. IANAL, etc., but my reading of this warranty is that they will fix the pistol if it breaks and return it to the buyer. Period.

What is unsaid is that they will not fix it because it might break.

Also, this warranty applies only to the original buyer.

This company was organized recently, and the pistol in question is the first one that it has produced. IMHO, the first buyers of a new product pay their money and take their chances.

If someone files a class action suit or something of that sort, it would probably put the company out of business.

Even an unorganized consumer backlash stands a chance of dooming the company to failure. They started up in the middle of what can only be called .380 mania. If they can't continue to sell products...

- Jim

[The Annoyed Man]

I got burned once by buying a vehicle in the first year of its production - a 2002 Saturn Vue. It was so bad that, after about the 10th or 12th warranty repair during the first two years of ownership, I finally traded it in on a used 2002 Nissan Pathfinder in early 2004 and never looked back. More than 4 years later, I'm still driving that Pathfinder. It has 120,000 miles on it and it runs like a champ. It's still tight, with no squeaks or rattles. The Vue was crap. On the first day of ownership, a bushing fell out of the right rear shock tower causing the slightest road irregularities to produce very loud rattling from that corner of the car. The very next day, the emergency brake cable came out of its channel and coiled itself up underneath the rear seat carpeting. Two weeks later, the dashboard caught fire when I started the car. And those were the least of my problems with that vehicle. Other problems included power window motor failures, gas gauge sending unit failures. Steering component failures. Transmission and U-joint failures, etc., etc., etc.

The point of all this is that Saturn cheerfully warranted all the repair work every time something came up, but none of that mattered a hill of beans because at some point the aggravation of ownership and the time wasted on repairs were no longer worth the monthly payment on the vehicle. I concluded that no amount of cooperation on Saturn's part was going to make a fundamentally unsound and unsafe vehicle into a safe one, and I got rid of it. It was the second, and last, Saturn I'll ever buy.

Same with guns, only more so because we stake our very lives on the knowledge/faith that the gun will absolutely function, without failures, when we need it to. When a problem begins to develop with a car, you often have opportunity to get it to a dealer before it turns into something really ugly and people get killed. But with a gun, we don't test it every day. We practice with it once in a while, with more or less frequency depending on the individual owner, but even the most disciplined CHL holder doesn't shoot his gun every day to make sure it works before leaving the house that day. It HAS to work when called on, or we're dead.

A gun manufacturer who is selling a pistol expressly designed for concealed carry and self-defense, and who has a manifest record of design and QC failures, has an absolute moral obligation to stop selling and recall ALL of their products for either redesign and replacement, or parts replacement to ensure that the lives of the people who depend on their products are well protected.

If they are not willing to take that step, then the marketplace should determine that they go belly up. I wouldn't make water on a company like that if they were on fire and I was the only one around.

[seamusTX]

A gun manufacturer who is selling a pistol expressly designed for concealed carry and self-defense, and who has a manifest record of design and QC failures, has an absolute moral obligation to stop selling and recall ALL of their products for either redesign and replacement, or parts replacement to ensure that the lives of the people who depend on their products are well protected.

I don't know of any manufacturer that explicitly warrants the use of its products for civilian self defense. Granted, some of their advertising is so suggestive that they could not credibly deny it.

It's fine to say they should recall everything, but I doubt they could do it and remain in business.
The net effect for buyers would be the same as doing nothing.

- Jim

[rpecunia]

in the meantime and while the DB380 is in repair, had picked up a Taurus TCP - not that either gives the comfort of my Glock 30 but it's better than not having something - the TCP performed well on the first range outing anyways !

agree with both above - the reputation and expectations of self-defense firearm mfgs is high - as well as a good point that a bk company wouldn't do us DB380 gun owners much good !!!

[MechAg94]

In my experience, there are few "cheap" guns I have bought that I was very happy with. My Kel-tec P32 is one. I tend to avoid them unless I hear good things.

[The Annoyed Man]

I don't know of any manufacturer that explicitly warrants the use of its products for civilian self defense. Granted, some of their advertising is so suggestive that they could not credibly deny it.

It's fine to say they should recall everything, but I doubt they could do it and remain in business.
The net effect for buyers would be the same as doing nothing.

- Jim

Some are better than others. I don't buy guns from manufacturers with terrible service reputations. It might cost me a little more in retail pricing, but it costs me a ton less in aggravation. I sympathize with the buyers who bought these guns and aren't getting satisfaction, but at the end of the day, if the company doesn't step up and provide satisfaction, they will eventually go out of business, and that is as it should be.

[seamusTX]

... if the company doesn't step up and provide satisfaction, they will eventually go out of business, and that is as it should be.

I agree.

I'm just trying to point out that anyone calling for a blanket recall probably is not going to what they want.

Start-up companies are notoriously undercapitalized, which is MBA-speak for saying that they barely have enough cash to run their day-to-day operations. Inexpensive .380s must have a small profit margin (the prices are clustered around $300, which is low for any new pistol). The company simply does not have the resources for a massive recall unless they have some wealthy backer that I am not aware of.

Kel-Tec, Ruger, and Bersa are all owned by conglomerates or private equity companies. They can weather a financial crisis much more easily than a start-up, if their parents are willing to keep them going. Firearms manufacturers that have multiple products in different markets can afford to fix a problem in a small percentage of their products. Diamondback currently has only one product.

- Jim

[Embalmo]

I, like everyone else here, will likely never fire my weapon in the course of self defense, so I carry it as a sort of insurance that if I need it,l it'll be there. So, in order for me to have that sense of security, I must feel confident that my gun will be capable of firing in that one unlikely event that I must use it.

My around the block point here is that even if after several (or few) trips to the gunsmith, and the weapon is tip top, I just don't think I could ever have that "I'll trust my life to it" feeling. To me a handgun is something that just has to be 100% dead reliable, or I just won't carry it. I've heard heard folks indicate their belief that all autos are unreliable, and that is just something that I will never accept.

I would have warranty work done on the unreliable gun and then I would sell it. There are lots of tried and true comparable pocket .380s on the market to choose from.

Embalmo

[Embalmo]

I'm curious to see what will happen to Diamondback. I thought they would've introduced a whole line of guns by now.

[rpecunia]

in looking at the co-founders other business, http://www.diamondbackairboats.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, there is an sense of world class to the business - believe these guys are the mercedes-benz of airboats...

the owner must be having a hard time fighting the ethics of doing right by the customers and the survival business instincts necessary to weather what has turned into a maintenance and repair business...

and yes, i'd take some airboat rental time in trade !!!

[Embalmo]

I wouldn't trust those poisonous snakes!!

[surprise_i'm_armed]

Embalmo:

If you don't trust those poisonous snakes you'd
encounter on a Florida airboat ride, just make
sure you take a Taurus Judge loaded with .410's.

Not a DB 380! :-)

SIA

[Embalmo]

Embalmo:

If you don't trust those poisonous snakes you'd
encounter on a Florida airboat ride, just make
sure you take a Taurus Judge loaded with .410's.

Not a DB 380! :-)

SIA

Now that would be a funny YouTube video. A Taurus Judge loaded with .410 shooting a Diamondback .380.

[rpecunia]

quick range report given i got back the DB380

DB380 - just returned from factory, light lube At 15'
Winchester 92gr fmj - full box
With extended mag base
First 5 - perfect !!!
Second 5 - perfect!!!
Third 5 - perfect
Fourth 5 - perfect!!!
Fifth 5 - bad primer ?! (first I've seen, dented) - cycled, and after 2 more, 1 fte (looked like a little bit of case swelling)
Sixth 5 - perfect
Seventh 5 - perfect
Eight 5 - perfect
Ninth 5 - perfect
Tenth 5 - perfect

Now realize what other posts were saying about first round ftf - if pistol is dry fired between chambering the first round of the next magazine, then (and ONLY then) it jams on load catching the firing pin - head this and ZERO problems feeding first round...

At 15'
Remington 88gr jhp
First 5 - perfect - flashy load
Second 5 - perfect
With regular mag
Third 5 - perfect
like these rounds

At 15'
PMC Bronze 92gr fmj
First 5 - perfect
Second 5 - perfect
Third 5 - fte, cleared then good

Great range report, shot like a different gun, on the DB380 - factory did a great job on mine - still awaiting repair summary though - only thing I noticed after shooting was that the forward trigger pin had worked it's way maybe a 32nd of an inch out to the right side - and readily tapped that back in...

Also pulled out the Taurus 380 while i was shooting...

Taurus TCP - light lube
At 15'
Regular mag
PMC bronze 92gr fmj
First 5 - perfect
Second 5 - perfect
Third 5 - perfect

This was a good range experience on BOTH guns !!! especially my DB380 ZA130X