Schools and CHL, a quick question...

[BoneDigger]

According to the law, it is illegal to carry a firearm around a school activity. So, if you went to a zoo during the week and that zoo was open for carry (no 30.06 sign) but saw school buses in the parking lot, would that make the zoo off limits for carry?

Todd

[Teamless]

As I understand it, if you are there With the school function, then you cannot carry.
If you happen to be at the zoo when there are school functions there, you are fine, if you are in no way with them.

Thats much like going to McDonalds for lunch and there happens to be a school bus outside it for some traveling sports team, you can go in, because you are not with them.

[The Annoyed Man]

This scenario has been covered here before a number of times.

Here's the upshot... If you are participating in a school field trip to the zoo, you may not carry on the bus, or into the zoo. If you drove yourself there to meet the bus at the zoo, you could carry in your car, but not into the zoo.

However, if you go to the zoo and you are not party to any school trip, you may carry into the zoo so long as it is not posted with a 30.06 sign.

[BoneDigger]

Thanks guys, that's what I thought. I appreciate the input.

Todd

[howdy]

Please keep in mind that the responders here have given you their "opinion". The female DPS lawyer that teaches the Instructor class (don't we all love her) does not agree with that opinion. An offense under this section (46.03) is a third degree felony.

The DPS lawyer tells the story of a CHL holder taking his car to a band car wash not on school property (he has nothing to do with the band). A kid sees the handgun under the seat, tells chaperone, calls police, guy goes to jail for carrying on gounds where a school function was being held. Is this a true story.........probably not. BUT, it is the example she uses to make her point.

[The Annoyed Man]

Please keep in mind that the responders here have given you their "opinion". The female DPS lawyer that teaches the Instructor class (don't we all love her) does not agree with that opinion. An offense under this section (46.03) is a third degree felony.

The DPS lawyer tells the story of a CHL holder taking his car to a band car wash not on school property (he has nothing to do with the band). A kid sees the handgun under the seat, tells chaperone, calls police, guy goes to jail for carrying on gounds where a school function was being held. Is this a true story.........probably not. BUT, it is the example she uses to make her point.

Handgun under the seat is legal under MPA, and it is not a CHL matter. However, MPA requires that the weapon be concealed and not in plain view. If someone had an unsecured weapon under the seat and then subjected his/her vehicle to a "search" ("search," as in letting someone else have access to the interior of the vehicle to vacuum the carpets, particularly under the seat) by a student at a school sponsored function, then yes, that person could be arrested. If the gun had been locked in a case under the seat and was not plainly visible to someone, then the student would have no way of knowing that was a gun, and there should have been no arrest.

Secondly, zoos and museums are not schools. They are public places and not subject to the laws which control the possession of firearms on school campuses, or at school sponsored events in the same way a school is regulated. Unless they are posted 30.06, you can carry your weapon into a zoo or a museum. Just because a local grammar school plans a field trip to a museum for some 6th grade class, that does not preempt the right of the entire rest of the citizenry from exercising their lawful privileges while also visiting that same museum. If the opposite were the case, you couldn't carry anywhere at all because of the risk of encountering a school event, because how are you supposed to know in advance that a school event will be there? What if a school bus carrying a high school football team stops at a Sonic Burger on the way home from a game, and I happen to drop in at the same time to buy my dinner, and I have a concealed weapon on my person which I carry under authority of my CHL? I am subject to arrest? I don't think so. As long as my concealed weapon remains concealed, I am in violation of no law.

The individual in your case did not have the weapon concealed on their person. He left it in "plain view" of a minor whom the vehicle owner had given permission to access the vehicle's interior. THAT is why he got arrested.

[howdy]

Your explanation is not the way the discussion went. The man had a CHL, did nothing malicious, and had his gun hidden from view. A CHL license gives you no relief from section 46.03, only 46.02. Again, I am only saying what the DPS attorney said. Whether or not I believe it is not relevant. We had quite a lively discussion in instructor renewal class several years ago (before 2007 law changes) about this exact situation, you/me being in a non school building/grounds and a school bus pulling up and a boat load of kids coming in. Her take is the literal meaning of 46.03, ANY GROUNDS OR BUILDING. She said you must take your handgun out of the building. (I could just see about 20 people getting up and going out to their cars) You could always try to talk your way out of it. I know concealed is concealed, but the law is also the law.......unfortunately different "legal experts" see it different ways. I for one do not remove my handgun when confronted with this situation. I also tell my students that this is one of the very grey areas of CHL law. These laws are written by politicians (mostly lawyers) and I think they treat them as "full employment" opportunities.

[The Annoyed Man]

Understood, and I resisted making any comments about lawyers... but I was tempted!

That said, if the person had a gun "concealed under the seat," unless that gun is locked up in a case so that it cannot be positively identified as a gun, that gun is in plain view to a teenager who has been invited to clean out the car's interior at a school sponsored car wash.

They have attorneys. We have attorneys. And this particular DPS attorney's (incorrect, IMO) opinion notwithstanding, she's not the one who is going to be prosecuting the actor. Someone else will be doing that, and a competent defense attorney should be able to point out that CHL law is not applicable since, once the actor stepped out of his car and left his gun under the seat, the gun was no longer in his possession on his person.

I am neither a lawyer nor a CHL instructor, but that just doesn't pass the smell test. I'll bet the guy beat the time, if not the ride. Or, maybe I'm wrong as heck.

[LarryH]

. . .or he could be prosecuted for making a loaded gun available to a child, depending on the ages of the students who were running the car wash.

[howdy]

The DPS attorney says she gets called all the time from DA's for her "expert" opinion on CHL/handgun law. In this particular case, she might not be our friend. To be honest, (not to get off subject) she dislikes CHL holders. She told us last year that she always has an armed DPS Deputy with her anytime she meets with a CHL holder. She is afraid the guy/gal might go postal.

[LarryH]

The DPS attorney says she gets called all the time from DA's for her "expert" opinion on CHL/handgun law. In this particular case, she might not be our friend. To be honest, (not to get off subject) she dislikes CHL holders. She told us last year that she always has an armed DPS Deputy with her anytime she meets with a CHL holder. She is afraid the guy/gal might go postal.

. . . . makes you wonder why she works where she does . . .

[sjfcontrol]

The DPS attorney says she gets called all the time from DA's for her "expert" opinion on CHL/handgun law. In this particular case, she might not be our friend. To be honest, (not to get off subject) she dislikes CHL holders. She told us last year that she always has an armed DPS Deputy with her anytime she meets with a CHL holder. She is afraid the guy/gal might go postal.

. . . . makes you wonder why she works where she does . . .

Hey -- Jobs are hard to find...

[The Annoyed Man]

. . .or he could be prosecuted for making a loaded gun available to a child, depending on the ages of the students who were running the car wash.

That's the point I'm trying to make. I doubt it was a CHL charge.

[chabouk]

The DPS attorney says she gets called all the time from DA's for her "expert" opinion on CHL/handgun law.

Given the various "opinions" she has expressed over the years, I'm surprised she hasn't been disbarred by now.

I'm sure she's smart. It's hard to graduate law school and pass the bar without being reasonably intelligent. But when it comes to her ability to read and analyze the law as written... yeah. Stone cold idiot. There's nothing kinder that I could possibly say.