51% Confusion

[kanders]

Hi, everyone - I went into a nearby Kwik-E-Mart yesterday, the kind of place in which I would really like to be carrying and I noticed not one, but two 51% signs right next to each other. Now I KNOW that these stores generate 0% of their revenue from sales of alcoholic beverages to be consumed on the premises, and would be surprised if they even generated close to 50% from their beer and wine sales.

How should I interpret this? Is it basically a bogus attempt to discourage the bad guys from bringing guns in? Or do I still have to obey the signs even though they can't be valid?

Along the same lines, what if you go into a pub or bar, where you know they sell alcohol for on-premises consumption which accounts for something like 95-100% of their revenue, but you can't find the 51% sign anywhere? Is it still illegal to carry if they don't post a sign, since you "know" they meet the 51% requirement?

Thanks,
Kevin

[Mithras61]

Your best bet is to contact the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission and report it. I don't think it's impossible that the local Kwik-e-Mart gets 51% of its revenue from the sale of alcoholic beverages, but it seems sort of unlikely.

At any rate, if they have the wrong sogn posted TABC will be able to tell them so and they can remove the sign (or replace it with the correct 30.06 compliant signage if they don't want CHL customers).

[txinvestigator]

Hi, everyone - I went into a nearby Kwik-E-Mart yesterday, the kind of place in which I would really like to be carrying and I noticed not one, but two 51% signs right next to each other. Now I KNOW that these stores generate 0% of their revenue from sales of alcoholic beverages to be consumed on the premises, and would be surprised if they even generated close to 50% from their beer and wine sales.

How should I interpret this? Is it basically a bogus attempt to discourage the bad guys from bringing guns in? Or do I still have to obey the signs even though they can't be valid?

Along the same lines, what if you go into a pub or bar, where you know they sell alcohol for on-premises consumption which accounts for something like 95-100% of their revenue, but you can't find the 51% sign anywhere? Is it still illegal to carry if they don't post a sign, since you "know" they meet the 51% requirement?

Thanks,
Kevin

The sign means nothing as far as your right to carry there or your ability to be charged if you carry illegally.

The presence or lack of a sign is not a defense to prosecution.

If the place is not a 51% place and you carry there with a sign posted you are OK.

If you carry in a 51% place where there is no sign you are in violation.

[txinvestigator]

Your best bet is to contact the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission and report it. I don't think it's impossible that the local Kwik-e-Mart gets 51% of its revenue from the sale of alcoholic beverages, but it seems sort of unlikely.

The 51% rule applies only to places who sell for on-premise consumption.

[Mithras61]

Your best bet is to contact the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission and report it. I don't think it's impossible that the local Kwik-e-Mart gets 51% of its revenue from the sale of alcoholic beverages, but it seems sort of unlikely.

The 51% rule applies only to places who sell for on-premise consumption.

Thanks! I was under the misapprehention that it solely had to do with income from the sale of alcoholic beverages, and didn't realize it was also for on-premises consumption.

I'd still call TABC, though. TABC will make 'em take the sign down, and then they either have to own up & post 30.06 signage or they were misinformed (like me!) and no further signage will would be posted. In either case, CHLers wouldn't be confused about the place any longer.

[Diode]

Your best bet is to contact the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission and report it. I don't think it's impossible that the local Kwik-e-Mart gets 51% of its revenue from the sale of alcoholic beverages, but it seems sort of unlikely.

The 51% rule applies only to places who sell for on-premise consumption.

I did not know that, thank TX.

[kanders]

Thanks for input, everyone. That's pretty much what I expected, and it's really common sense, except I wonder what would happen if you really couldn't tell what % alcohol a place might sell, they didn't have the sign (or you couldn't find one posted conspicuously), then you were found to have a CCW in there and the place turned out to be a 51% place. I mean, there are lots of restaurants that serve food and drinks but make their real killing on drinks. If you were found carrying in one of these and were unable to find the sign after a diligent effort, the fact that they had no sign or that it was posted in the back hallway past the men's room would not be a defence to prosecution?

Personally, I would always ask one of the managers to be sure

[txinvestigator]

I mean, there are lots of restaurants that serve food and drinks but make their real killing on drinks. If you were found carrying in one of these and were unable to find the sign after a diligent effort, the fact that they had no sign or that it was posted in the back hallway past the men's room would not be a defence to prosecution?

It would not. Notice that the law simply says you cannot carry at a 51% and makes no mention of the sign.


Texas penal code
§46.035. Unlawful carrying of handgun by license holder.


(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder
intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the
authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless
of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's
person:

(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or
license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic
Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its
income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises
consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage
Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;

[Diode]

Thanks for input, everyone. That's pretty much what I expected, and it's really common sense, except I wonder what would happen if you really couldn't tell what % alcohol a place might sell, they didn't have the sign (or you couldn't find one posted conspicuously), then you were found to have a CCW in there and the place turned out to be a 51% place. I mean, there are lots of restaurants that serve food and drinks but make their real killing on drinks. If you were found carrying in one of these and were unable to find the sign after a diligent effort, the fact that they had no sign or that it was posted in the back hallway past the men's room would not be a defence to prosecution?

Personally, I would always ask one of the managers to be sure

I decided if it looks like a bar it probably is. Take Hooters for instance, some are posted others are not but it is up to us to know. I assume they sell more beer than wings, I leave it in the console.

[kw5kw]

I decided if it looks like a bar it probably is. Take Hooters for instance, some are posted others are not but it is up to us to know. I assume they sell more beer than wings, I leave it in the console.

Hooters... Hooters???

My wife won't let me go into Hooters!

All joking aside, I won't me go into Hooters either. I just don't need the alcohol, da wings or anything else.
Russ

[Diode]

BUT, Tx it does however leave room for not being able to tell.

"intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun"

[jimlongley]

I decided if it looks like a bar it probably is. Take Hooters for instance, some are posted others are not but it is up to us to know. I assume they sell more beer than wings, I leave it in the console.

Hooters... Hooters???

My wife won't let me go into Hooters!

All joking aside, I won't me go into Hooters either. I just don't need the alcohol, da wings or anything else.
Russ

ROFL! My wife doesn't mind when, and if, I go to Hooters - the average girls there are pretty heavily, if somewhat tackily, dressed, and the few times I have gone I usually wind up with the waitress who has a cold and is wearing long sleeved sweats.

[40FIVER]

Not only does it have to be intenionally, knowingly or recklessly, it is up to the TABC to determine if the place is 51%. We do not have to guess. I think the 51% establishment is required to post the 51% sign.

[Liberty]

I'd still call TABC, though. TABC will make 'em take the sign down, and then they either have to own up & post 30.06 signage or they were misinformed (like me!) and no further signage will would be posted. In either case, CHLers wouldn't be confused about the place any longer.

Why call them. as it stands now you can legally carry in there. Waking them up could encourage them to post a proper 30.06 sign. Everyone loses.

[KBCraig]

Not only does it have to be intenionally, knowingly or recklessly, it is up to the TABC to determine if the place is 51%. We do not have to guess. I think the 51% establishment is required to post the 51% sign.

But if they don't have the proper sign up, you're still in violation. (Assuming "intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly".)

Intentionally and knowingly are easy. But recklessly is the one that can trip you up. It boils down to, "Would Joe Blow call this place a bar?"

Kevin