hypothetical situation (what to do?)

[swc007]

so its night time and you went to wal mart to do some late grocery shopping...(CHL carrier) a person (man) in the parking lot starts approaching you from a distance... you ask "can i help you?" person doesn't respond and keeps walking towards you... so you say "go away" or "leave me alone" whatever phrase of your choosing to let him know you want him to go away(you repeat it just to make sure he heard you)... what exactly is the correct action to take in this situation when you let the person know you dont want them close to you but they are closing the gap on you...obviously im a novice but i just want to know the right thing to do...my concern is the guy gets close then pulls a knife or gun on me...BUT i dont know he has one till its too late

[longtooth]

1st in a possible panhandler, robbery or assault situation like you describe, NEVER, ask "Can I help you." A simple yes please allows the approach that you have said you dont want at this time of night.

Firm, loud enough for others in the lot to hear, "What do you need sir?"
No answer & keep approaching as you said. Say that.
"No answer then you stay away. I dont know you!"
Lot easier to appologize later than call the wife from ER.

Your "from a distance" is your key if he continues. Distance is your friend.

Several options.

You have time to get in the vehicle & reach for & show him your cell phone. He knows who you will be calling. If approach continues use it.

No time to unlock & get in. Circle the vehicle keeping it between you & him showing the cell phone. Use it.

Be watchful 360 for others. He may or may not have accomplices.

Loud & clear. "I dont know you. Stay away." This creates witnesses. "I have nothing for you. Stay away." Use the phone. You have been approached by a panhandler at best.

Follows you around the vehicle & you have called LEO, Say it so dispatch has it on tape. Stay away. I dont know you. Tell dispatch he is following me around the vehicle. I need an officer now. If you have it show pepper & stay on the phone, telling dispatch. I have shown pepper & he is still following me around the vehicle.
If just standing but wont go away say it so dispatch hears it. Go away I dont know you. To dispatch, he wont leave I need an officer now..

[TXlaw1]

Excellent advice, Longtooth. Either get out of there immediately if possible or keep a car between you and BG while talking to dispatch and while watching for accomplices. Pepper spray is good but you have to be fairly close plus aware of the wind, at least out here in West Texas. If all that fails be prepared to get your gun and use it. Remember the 21 foot rule, especially if BG shows a weapon.

[A-R]

Great advice from LT.

I'll just add to BE LOUD and BE DIRECT. As LT said, apologies are easier than ER visits. DRAW attention to yourself and the non-responsive approacher.

Also never forget that nothing in the "Castle Law" says you CAN'T retreat (just that you don't have to retreat). RETREAT is always a viable and sound option. Go back to store, look for security or store personnel to assist you, tell them there is a strange man in parking lot (or whatever the situation may be).

[Excaliber]

Excellent advice, Longtooth. Either get out of there immediately if possible or keep a car between you and BG while talking to dispatch and while watching for accomplices. Pepper spray is good but you have to be fairly close plus aware of the wind, at least out here in West Texas. If all that fails be prepared to get your gun and use it. Remember the 21 foot rule, especially if BG shows a weapon.

The "21 foot rule" was the result of experiments by Lt. Dennis Tueller of the Salt Lake City PD about 27 years ago that showed an assailant with a contact weapon could reach and attack a defender from 21 feet in 1.5 seconds. An update on what Ret. Lt. Tueller has to say about that today can be found here.

I don't have nearly as many steps as Longtooth in my uninvited approach management plan because I don't anticipate having enough time to play them out. I don't want a potential threat furthering his purpose by eating up the distance between us while I go through a series of time consuming escalating verbalizations that he simply ignores, which is a favored tactic among those up to no good.

I depend on my instincts to identify a potential threat. If an approaching person trips that flag, I use a short, loud, clear and directive warning reinforced with an extended arm and upraised palm at about 30 feet: "Stop right there and state your business."

The response to that command clears up the IFF question right quick while I still have enough time and maneuvering room to manage the difficult cases with escape, retreat, movement to cover, etc. options as the situation allows.

[swc007]

thanks that was all great advice!!! guess i got "can i help you" from all those scary movie classics when the suspicious figure in the dark is approaching haha...that was always my main concern that someone would approach me at night in a parking lot and i wouldnt know the proper action to take BUT now i do... Thanks for the help!

[7075-T7]

Inside your vehicle is your friend.

I had a similar situation happen to me in New Mexico (pre CHL) when I stopped for fuel really early in the morning. The owner inside gives me a very odd look, like "you shouldn't be here" which put me on alert. We walk outside and a man comes from around the corner of the building from the shadows and starts walking towards us, I b-line it to the car un-locking it the whole way, open the door and re-assess where he is, which is running towards us, I jump in the car, make sure the wife is in the car, lock the doors, start and peel out down the road. Very scary situation, and I would have probably done the same even with my CHL, your vehicle (even the door) is just another barrier between you and the unfriendly.

[45 4 life]

I have to take make some suggestions on this one.
If I have a cell phone in one hand, I am not reaching for pepper spray with the other. If it gets to this point my strong side hand will be on the grips, the only question then is, is it still in the holster.
If you are out that late at night, the first thing to take care of is park as near to the entrance as possible. If someone starts to approach you you have two choices:

Get in the car and leave, keeping watch on the person as much as possible. Maybe backing away. Call police and report what has happened.
Go in the store, keeping watch on the person as you do. Either call or have a store employee call police and report the contact.

[The Annoyed Man]

You've basically got two possible responses....

One is that you are surprised because you live in Condition White, and he gets inside of 20 yards from you before you notice him, you call in a Broken Arrow fire mission and roll under your car for cover.

The other possible response is to live in Condition Yellow so you don't get surprised, and then do everything longtooth said to do.

Option two is a lot less stressful than option one. Living in Condition Yellow is an easy thing to do, and it will eventually become second nature.

[Texas Dan Mosby]

I depend on my instincts to identify a potential threat. If an approaching person trips that flag, I use a short, loud, clear and directive warning reinforced with an extended arm and upraised palm at about 30 feet: "Stop right there and state your business."

The response to that command clears up the IFF question right quick while I still have enough time and maneuvering room to manage the difficult cases with escape, retreat, movement to cover, etc. options as the situation allows.

Concur.

What you can see in the eyes and body language is more often than not a simple and accurate way to read intent. When you tell someone to stop, or keep their distance, their reaction is very telling indeed. The upraised hand used in conjunction with a confident demeanor and assertive tone of voice is pretty effective at subconsciously communicating your "limit of advance" so to speak. The majority of individuals who don't have hostile intent will pick up on this subtle cue, and stop or maintain their distance in order to prevent a further, and potentially aggressive, reaction on your part. Should they fail to stop and attempt to breach my personal space, they will be physically prevented from doing so in a manner suited to the situation.

As long as I can see the hands, I don't worry much about having to use a weapon for my personal defense, as I am confident enough in my own physical abilities to either fight or RUN . Hidden hands, however, is a different story and I would take a different approach based on the specific situation, especially if they refused to show me their hands after I TOLD them to do so.

Your individual demeanor can go a LONG way to 1) prevent yourself from being targeted in the first place, and 2) make the individual in question seriously reconsider any nefarious action they intend to take. By maintaining alertness and projecting confidence in your walk, posture, and manner of speech, you are pretty clearly showing that you will NOT be an "easy victim", and most criminals will look elsewhere for prey.

Panhandlers and criminals both look for the "sheepish" citizens to pester as they know they will get little to no resistance.

Bottom line: Don't be that citizen.

[suthdj]

Depending on where the person is I would alter my course cut over to next lane see if he matches then take necessary action as described above. Just the short version as he has already signaled his intent.

[Beiruty]

Hands in his hoody pocket and advancing. Yell: "Back off, Show me your hands, Show your hands" He will get the message, he BG will assume that you are undercover LEO.

[TXlaw1]

Excellent advice, Longtooth. Either get out of there immediately if possible or keep a car between you and BG while talking to dispatch and while watching for accomplices. Pepper spray is good but you have to be fairly close plus aware of the wind, at least out here in West Texas. If all that fails be prepared to get your gun and use it. Remember the 21 foot rule, especially if BG shows a weapon.

The "21 foot rule" was the result of experiments by Lt. Dennis Tueller of the Salt Lake City PD about 27 years ago that showed an assailant with a contact weapon could reach and attack a defender from 21 feet in 1.5 seconds. An update on what Ret. Lt. Tueller has to say about that today can be found here.

Thank you for the link to the update on Tueller's "rule" of 21 feet. I agree with him that it should not be considered a hard and fast rule - it is a guideline. Also like his Aware Alert Act Alive action plan. Very good.