Another CHL incident

baraco01 · Post by **baraco01** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:47 am

Just wanted to share something that happened here in our city last Friday: http://www.elpasotimes.com/ci_15996266? ... otimes.com

My kids and I ate at that particular restaurant a number of times since it is close to the school where my wife teaches.

I have a question though. Are firefighters considered law enforcement officers here in Texas? Reason is, reports mentioned that an off-duty firefighter who happens to be in the restaurant at the time of the shooting disarmed the CHL holder (confiscated his pistol). There were 4 BG's and only 1 shot was fired hitting a BG in the face. So if he was disarmed, the possibility of the 3 others getting weapons from their cars in the parking lot is high. I wonder why the firefighter "confiscated" is weapon right away when he knew that the BG's were harassing and threatening people in the restaurant w/ a fork. Also If he is so much into a "law Enforcer" mode, then why didn't he step up the moment the BG's threatened the first group of people before they threatened the CHL holder.

G.A. Heath · Post by **G.A. Heath** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:48 am

Fire marshals are sworn LEOs, otherwise the firefighter probably wasn't a LEO or the reports would refer to them as working for which ever department employees them. The article doesn't mention the disarming of the CHL.

baraco01 · Post by **baraco01** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:51 am

Here is another article that mentioned the firefighter: http://www.elpasotimes.com/ci_15989276? ... otimes.com

I'm still looking for the other news articles that mentioned the terms "disarmed" and "confiscated". I could not find those yet. I've been following this incident since it happened specially that we also go to that part of town and in that particular restaurant.

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:56 am

Firefighters are not sworn LEOs.

This situation sounds like a royal torquing of the canine, if I can write that. However, as of this moment, the shooter appears to have been legally justified or at least not chargeable.

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- Jim

Hoi Polloi · Post by **Hoi Polloi** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:59 am

Thread already running here: viewtopic.php?f=83&t=37662" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This info makes a little more sense. From the article in the other thread, it seemed like a CHL holder might have shot a restaurant patron point-blank in the face unprovoked. Now it makes sense that he was being provoked with a knife by what appear to be gang members.

skub · Post by **skub** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:45 am

According to police, the incident began when Morales threatened a man inside the restaurant with a fork.
Moments later, Morales, Rosales, Dang and an unnamed suspect confronted a second man, and Morales threatened him with a knife.
The second man, who had a Texas concealed-handgun license, drew his handgun and pointed it at Morales and the other suspect.
After continuing threats from Morales and the unnamed suspect, the man with the handgun fired one shot, striking the unnamed suspect in the face.

I've heard of bringing a knife to a gunfight, but a fork?

VoiceofReason · Post by **VoiceofReason** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:59 am

Well if it had been a justified shoot and the fireman had jumped and grabbed my gun he would have been shot too.

Sorry about that buddy, but in a situation like that, nobody except a uniformed LEO would disarm me.

shootthesheet · Post by **shootthesheet** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:57 pm

VoiceofReason wrote:Well if it had been a justified shoot and the fireman had jumped and grabbed my gun he would have been shot too.

Sorry about that buddy, but in a situation like that, nobody except a uniformed LEO would disarm me.

The fireman’s best action would be to get out. If the CHL was really a bad guy he may continue to shoot people. If he is a good guy he is no danger to anyone. People have got to start thinking.

Jumping Frog · Post by **Jumping Frog** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:47 pm

I noticed the licensee had to flee the scene with multiple people chasing him after he had been disarmed.

Barbi Q · Post by **Barbi Q** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:57 pm

Jumping Frog wrote:I noticed the licensee had to flee the scene with multiple people chasing him after he had been disarmed.

Probably the gang members who weren't shot. Three of the gang members were charged but those were just the ones the cops caught.

CC Italian · Post by **CC Italian** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:24 pm

A guy I know is a fire marshal and yes they can disarm you. They are LEO and carry firearms. They have a very unique role. While they are law enforcement of fire, so to speak, they have just as much authority to write you a ticket or arrest you for any violation as a regular police officer. Don't know about this case but I just thought I would clarify that. A fire marshal can confiscate your firearm just like a regular cop. If I was ordered to do so I would comply just as if a police officer gave me an order.

baraco01 · Post by **baraco01** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:28 pm

CC Italian wrote:A guy I know is a fire marshal and yes they can disarm you. They are LEO and carry firearms. They have a very unique role. While they are law enforcement of fire, so to speak, they have just as much authority to write you a ticket or arrest you for any violation as a regular police officer. Don't know about this case but I just thought I would clarify that. A fire marshal can confiscate your firearm just like a regular cop. If I was ordered to do so I would comply just as if a police officer gave me an order.

the guy you know is a fire marshall... not just a firefighter

Besides..... he should have stepped in when the thugs started harassing the other people....

CC Italian · Post by **CC Italian** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:50 pm

The man I know is a sworn LEO officer who is a fire marshal for Fort Bend County. My brother is EMS and a firefighter who is NOT a fire marshal and he would have no authority nor would he probably step between a fight or argument. He would call the police and render aid if need be. Whenever there is a violent or potential for a violent confrontation they wait for law enforcement on or off duty. On a few occasions he has had to restrain crazed people in usually domestic disputes but only because they are on duty. He always says he has just as much authority as me when it comes to a violent situation, but he has the hero’s obligation and code. Not unlike you would expect from a uniformed solider. It’s just expected from him. Any man could step in and try to diffuse the situation but my brother knows that’s usually how you get shot or stabbed from his experience.

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:53 pm

Ya don't know. Ya weren't there. No one who was there is going to tell a straight, accurate story.

One lesson to be taken away is that a pistol is not a magic wand that makes its owner omnipotent. How did an unarmed firefighter disarm an armed man?

- Jim

CC Italian · Post by **CC Italian** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:12 pm

Like you said Seamus, we weren't there. I just was trying to clarify a firefighters authority and possible obligation in a incident like this.

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