Kimbell and Amon Carter Museum, Ft. Worth

[MrDrummy]

Maybe this has already been covered, but I'd like to throw this out there. Went to the art museums with my mother today, and noticed the "unlawful to carry a handgun on these premises" stenciled on the window. They also say that all bags are subject to search.

Now, I know that this isn't a 30.06 sign, so could I legally carry into this building? I didn't, because I'm not in the mood to end up in court at the moment.

What do you all think?

[longtooth]

You can decide what you want to do. It is legal carry if they do not have a 30-06 sign. I walk in like there is nothing on the window that legally addresses me carrying under authority of CHL because there isn't.

[kauboy]

You can decide what you want to do. It is legal carry if they do not have a 30-06 sign. I walk in like there is nothing on the window that legally addresses me carrying under authority of CHL because there isn't.

BINGO!!!

[AG-EE]

I see these kinds of questions extremely often from people. Is it a lot of instructors are failing to adequately explain the law to people, or some people just can't comprehend the law as explained?

I am not trying to be insulting to the original poster for asking, because one learns by asking questions, but this is one of the things that should be covered with great emphasis in the class.

[kw5kw]

this site, the official web site of the Texas DPS, gives you the information in easy to understand language!

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administra ... osting.htm

Russ

[MrDrummy]

As a law abiding citizen, I've followed a lot of rules a lot of my life. I've never even had a speeding ticket.

I understand the laws, so I guess what I'm really asking is, if stopped, what should I say? I've never really seen that anywhere on the board.

I'd like to think that I'm idealistic, but I doubt that every one of us is rich enough to go through some sort of lawsuit if it came down to it. Two yellow dog school buses were parked right outside too. Don't you think that some anti could make the argument that "school" was in session?

I sometimes carry my pistol in a bag that I drag around with me that I've rigged with a holster on the inside, and since the museum sign says "All bags can be searched," it makes me think a little if I'd rather or not have a brush with folks. You know that they'd think that the sign was plenty, and I'd most definitely have an LEO on site quickly if they asked to search my bag, and found the pistol.

Yeah, I know, I can skip the museum, and many of you probably do. Yeah, I know, carry in a holster. I've been waiting on mine since June, and I don't know that I'm ever going to see it at this point.

What about it? What would one say in that position?

[Mithras61]

As a law abiding citizen, I've followed a lot of rules a lot of my life. I've never even had a speeding ticket.

I understand the laws, so I guess what I'm really asking is, if stopped, what should I say? I've never really seen that anywhere on the board.

I'd like to think that I'm idealistic, but I doubt that every one of us is rich enough to go through some sort of lawsuit if it came down to it. Two yellow dog school buses were parked right outside too. Don't you think that some anti could make the argument that "school" was in session?

I sometimes carry my pistol in a bag that I drag around with me that I've rigged with a holster on the inside, and since the museum sign says "All bags can be searched," it makes me think a little if I'd rather or not have a brush with folks. You know that they'd think that the sign was plenty, and I'd most definitely have an LEO on site quickly if they asked to search my bag, and found the pistol.

Yeah, I know, I can skip the museum, and many of you probably do. Yeah, I know, carry in a holster. I've been waiting on mine since June, and I don't know that I'm ever going to see it at this point.

What about it? What would one say in that position?

"School" is the term that the law uses without definition, but as far as I can tell, it means exactly what we usually mean by school... an elementary, middle, jr. high or high school as well as colleges and universities and the like. So far as I know, museums would take a pretty heavy stretch of the imagination (but that doesn't rule out what antis might say/do).

If they insist on searching my bag, I'd let them. If they make a stink about my pistol, I'd show my license and tell 'em to pipe down, they're "scaring the kiddies." If they don't want me to come in with it, I'd take it as a verbal warning under 30.06, and tell 'em that if they don't want CHL holders as customers, they should have the courtesy to post the appropriate signage. In my opinion, they are looking for weaponry that is unlicensed when they do this stuff. If they can't handle licensed weapon carry, they shouldn't be doing that job.

BTW, you might want to consider some other form of carry on a temporary basis. They're much less likely to try and search YOU that they are your bag. Even sliding it inside your waistband or into a pocket is less likely to trigger their noxious desire to search things.

[TxFire]

If they don't want me to come in with it, I'd take it as a verbal warning under 30.06, and tell 'em that if they don't want CHL holders as customers, they should have the courtesy to post the appropriate signage.

Indeed I would take that as verbal warning, but PLEASE do NOT advise them to post a proper 30.06 sign. That would just ruin it for everyone else who might not otherwise recieve a verbal notice due to a search. No use tipping them off on how to disarm every law abiding CHL is there?

[Crossfire]

I see these kinds of questions extremely often from people. Is it a lot of instructors are failing to adequately explain the law to people, or some people just can't comprehend the law as explained?

There are a lot of opinions out there, so I might as well add one more, and it is just that; my own personal opinion. I spend a fair bit of time in my classes talking about what is, and is not, a valid 30.06 sign. I even show pictures from various places around the DFW area, including the famous Grapevine Mills signs and the Kimball sign.

All that said and done, what it comes down to is, does the local PD know whether the sign is, or is not, valid? I know that the Grapevine officer I talked to on the day I took the picture at Grapevine Mills told me the sign was valid, and that they would enforce it, and that it DID include the parking lot. OK, now we all know that part about the parking lot is bogus, but how far are you willing to go to test your rights?

We have to go to such great lengths just to get the license... how far are you willing to go, how much are you willing to risk, to prove a point? It's not that instructors don't cover the signage info in the class, and I don't think it's that students don't listen. I just believe most people want to err on the side of caution.

If I lose my license, I lose a valuable source of income. I can't afford to be a crusader for CHL rights in that situation. I do what I can. I vote, I support the TSRA, I write letters. I educate as many people every day as I possibly can. But I can't afford to take too many risks. And I think that is what keeps other people asking these questions. They can't afford it either.

[John]

If they don't want me to come in with it, I'd take it as a verbal warning under 30.06, and tell 'em that if they don't want CHL holders as customers, they should have the courtesy to post the appropriate signage.

Indeed I would take that as verbal warning, but PLEASE do NOT advise them to post a proper 30.06 sign.

I am curious about something. What constitutes a verbal warning? Is it just saying “no guns allowed� or must they state no gun carried with a CHL? Also, would watching a video stating "guns are prohibited" constitute a verbal warning?

[JKDubb]

I

All that said and done, what it comes down to is, does the local PD know whether the sign is, or is not, valid?

but how far are you willing to go to test your rights?

We have to go to such great lengths just to get the license... how far are you willing to go, how much are you willing to risk, to prove a point?

I just believe most people want to err on the side of caution.

I can't afford to take too many risks. And I think that is what keeps other people asking these questions. They can't afford it either.

[cyphur]

If they don't want me to come in with it, I'd take it as a verbal warning under 30.06, and tell 'em that if they don't want CHL holders as customers, they should have the courtesy to post the appropriate signage.

Indeed I would take that as verbal warning, but PLEASE do NOT advise them to post a proper 30.06 sign.

I am curious about something. What constitutes a verbal warning? Is it just saying “no guns allowed� or must they state no gun carried with a CHL? Also, would watching a video stating "guns are prohibited" constitute a verbal warning?

As I understand it verbal warnings do not require any specific verbage to get the point across. If they make it clear they do not want guns on the premise, its an effective 30.06 notification.

If they say outloud - no guns on site - then I'd walk, and take my business elsewhere.

[Afff_667]

A CHL is neither cheap or easy to acquire, CCW and associated goodies are generally expensive, ammo is not free, and there is certainly a high degree of commitment required to be a responsible, armed citizen. One thing I have noted is that the degree of interpretation of the laws is somewhat disquieting. I can't think of how many times I have recalled what the laws specifically say yet still had something of a nagging question poking around in my brain about a few things.

I commend those on this forum who share their knowledge and understanding with those of us who are new. I also commend those who patiently answer what must in their minds be the same questions over and over and over. Y'all are providing a very valuable resource that provides great information. In fact, you are probably doing great things to keep CC safe from the anti crowd by keeping dialog open, passing along information, etc.

Salute!!