New "Disarm 'em" Policy for DPS troopers ???

Greybeard · Post by **Greybeard** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:13 am

Below is admittedly a "lazy-way" paste from another forum (http://www.thehighroad.org) and my reply, but I'm curious to learn if any of you guys (especially other instructors) have heard anything out of DPS in this regard.

----------------
Quote: "That being said, I have heard from a lawyer buddy that DPS had started instructing them to disarm all CHL holders when stopped."

Hmmmm ... Since-the-beginning TX CHL instructor here. And yes, that could now be the case, although it was not discussed in our last renewal school.

In the past, I recall the typical stop involved the trooper simply asking where the handgun was, then generally just leaving it there.

Coming back from an elk hunt in Colorado late last October, a young (solo) DPS trooper lit me up while running a little over 70 in a 65. Mudded-up 4X4 pickup with hunting gear and 2 concealed animals. 1:20 a.m. in the middle-of-no-where on Hwy 287 in TX panhandle (near Quanah). Hardly any other traffic on the road at that hour, so he likely had nothing else to do ... And needed a documented "contact" ? ...

When I handed DL and CHL to him he asked whereabouts at which point I told him of revolver under the floor mat. I was quite surprised when he asked me to hand it to him and asked "Are you sure you want me to reach for it?". He said "Go ahead", so I quite slowly opened the (very much loaded) cylinder before passing off to him over the steering wheel with the muzzle pointed down (at MY knees ...).

He then went back to his vehicle and subsequently returned the snubblie .357 and ammo separately - along with a warning ticket and a polite verbal to "slow it down a little". He asked if he had handled the stop to my satisfaction or if I had any questions.

At that point, I told him (tactfully) that I questioned why he let me reach for the gun, and indicated I had concern over that procedure due to the "action vs. reaction thing" (not wanting to insult his intelligence). He said "Well, you've had the class - and I trust you. But I was ready."

I told him it was the first time in over 10 years that I'd had an LEO touch my carry gun and left it at that. He suggested that I reload the thing promptly, that "If you needed it, it would not do you much good the way I gave it back to you. You guys have a safe trip home."

So yea, there may have been some semi-recent changes in Austin - not necessarily for the better.

----------------------

HighVelocity · Post by **HighVelocity** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:43 am

If the "disarm'em" policy change is indeed fact then I am going to unload my pistol before I hand it over. No way am I going to risk getting shot with my own gun if it's handled poorly by the Officer.

jbirds1210 · Post by **jbirds1210** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:37 am

Good Point HV. I was "disarmed" a while back in Nacadoches and the fellow would not let me unload the weapon. He did it himself and handed me back my mag and one loose round after writing Kimberly a ticket and gave me permission to load it once he walked away from the car.

I completely agree that one should be allowed to make a weapon safe, but how should one go about that other than dropping the mag and racking the slide? Those actions without explanation might stir up a nasty response.
Jason

player_twister · Post by **player_twister** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:14 am

I have never dealt with the DPS, but the Sheriff's Deputies here in Comal County, are really cool and calm about CHL's. I have had at least 5 incidents involving the Sheriff Department, (teenage related incidents), including my own. Each time i stated I had CHL and if they needed to see I.D., they told me not to worry about it. We would stand around and shoot the bull every time. They were very relaxed about me having a weapon, and never scanned me to see where I was packing.

My hats off to the Comal County Sheriffs Department. I really feel comfortable around these officers.

Roger Howard · Post by **Roger Howard** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:29 pm

player_twister wrote:......... They were very relaxed about me having a weapon, and never scanned me to see where I was packing.

My hats off to the Comal County Sheriffs Department. I really feel comfortable around these officers.

That's great. I wish all officers took that approach.

kauboy · Post by **kauboy** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:49 pm

Texas DPS website:
A trooper may disarm a licensee anytime he or she feels that safety is at risk. The trooper will return the gun at the end of the traffic stop when the threat to safety has passed.

Texas Government Code:
Â§ 411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM. A peace
officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's
official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer
reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the
license holder, officer, or another individual. The peace officer
shall return the handgun to the license holder before discharging
the license holder from the scene if the officer determines that the
license holder is not a threat to the officer, license holder, or
another individual and if the license holder has not violated any
provision of this subchapter or committed any other violation that
results in the arrest of the license holder.

The underlined part is what is easy to muddy. If ever asked why, the officer could simply say he had a "gut feeling", or something else just as easy.

No changes have been made to the law or the DPS' recommendation for proper conduct at a traffic stop by a Trooper. Unless this is being told to them by their superiors, I don't think this is a common thing.

casselthief · Post by **casselthief** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:51 pm

kauboy wrote: Unless this is being told to them by their superiors, I don't think this is a common thing.

that's

kinda

what

they were saying.....

AV8R · Post by **AV8R** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:51 pm

Tuesday before Thanksgiving, I was right-seat in a car stopped by DPS on I 35. The trooper glanced at my credentials, returned them without comment. Seemed unconcerned about the Glaco waist-pack on my lap. Hope that doesn't change next time, as I don't like the thought of handing over a hot Glock.

txinvestigator · Post by **txinvestigator** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:02 pm

DPS is not requiring officers to disarm CHL holders. I doubt any supervisor would require of his troops either, considering officer safety issues and troopers needing to be able to evaluate each stop on its own merit.

There are other things in the original post from the other forum that make its contents suspect to me too.

Thats why I view so few forums. There are just too many people who write fiction.

casselthief · Post by **casselthief** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:06 pm

NOT ON THE INTERNETS!!!
ZOMGRZ!!!

Srsly.

Greybeard · Post by **Greybeard** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:59 pm

Quote: " Unless this is being told to them by their superiors "

That's the focus of my initial question - looking to see if certain

"legal" people or some such burro-crat might have been expanding their turf ...

Quote: " troopers needing to be able to evaluate each stop on its own merit. "

Yep, I might be a little skittish too if having to work alone in the middle of the night out in the middle of no where. At least when trooper shined flashlight around inside the cab of brother's truck, he was observing coffee cups and not Coors cans ...

What trooper may or may not have known at the time (by running license plate on truck) was that we'd been on the road switching off driving for over 14 hours and groggy-eyed brother (also with CHL) over in passenger seat had one of those aforementioned "hot Glocks". It went unmentioned and untouched ...

Post by **carlson1** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:09 pm

It should be no problem for any officer. If you think about most Game Wardens Walk on to many deer camps with drunks with guns

I would desire to be on the highway with the violator sitting in a car than in the woods with a violator having a high powered rifle. Just my thoughts.

Greybeard · Post by **Greybeard** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:39 pm

Quote: " I would desire to be on the highway with the violator sitting in a car "

Actually, that may very well be the more dangerous of the two. A Game Warden friend, Darrin Medlin, who often helped me with hunter ed. classes, got killed that way a few years ago. He could not support family as desired on what TP&W paid and went to work for Grapevine PD. He was dealing with a guy on side of Hwy 121 when hit by another drunk driver.

Regarding hunters with guns in camps, it was not the deer rifles that concerned them so much. Darrin (and others) said the spookiest part of the GW job can be the careless gun handling when in close proximity of dove hunter's shotgun muzzles when checking for 3-shot max ... With or without the Coors.

Post by **carlson1** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:42 pm

I worked traffic for years and my brother Robert Carlson is a Commander for TPWD in East Texas. I have worked with him on several occasions. I take traffic over the Redneck with a rifle any day.

Greybeard · Post by **Greybeard** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:54 pm

Yea, some of those "types" in east Texas seem not to know what the words "season" or "limit" mean. But they learn young what a game warden looks like ...