This one in central Michigan.
http://www.countypress.com/stories/1129 ... 2002.shtml
Update: fake cops busted.
http://www.countypress.com/stories/1201 ... 1001.shtml
Another fake drug raid-slash-robbery
Moderator: carlson1
Wow. Disturbing, to say the least.
How confusing it would be to see two fellas coming up with FBI and police shirts on. It would at least keep me from drawing down on them immediately.
Any of you more experienced folks out there-- how would you approach a situation like this? What do you say? "Hey show me your badge?!" What?
Also- how did the second robber get injured, I wonder. Did I miss that?
How confusing it would be to see two fellas coming up with FBI and police shirts on. It would at least keep me from drawing down on them immediately.
Any of you more experienced folks out there-- how would you approach a situation like this? What do you say? "Hey show me your badge?!" What?
Also- how did the second robber get injured, I wonder. Did I miss that?
One has to ask oneself ahead of time. if you live a life that the LE's the 3 letter guys guys shouldn't find the least bit interesting. When the door is being busted in is no time to be asking questions.MrDrummy wrote:Wow. Disturbing, to say the least.
How confusing it would be to see two fellas coming up with FBI and police shirts on. It would at least keep me from drawing down on them immediately.
Any of you more experienced folks out there-- how would you approach a situation like this? What do you say? "Hey show me your badge?!" What?
Also- how did the second robber get injured, I wonder. Did I miss that?
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TX Rancher
- Senior Member
- Posts: 518
- Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:19 am
- Location: Fayette Co
Liberty:
While I agree the best way to avoid having real LE come to your door is to lead a completely legal life, and require the same of those that live in your house, there are cases where LE has gone to the wrong address. Under those rare conditions, MrDrummy has a legitimate question. How should you conduct yourself? I believe it’s clear what your response should be if they are in fact BG’s…But what if they’re LEO?
In my mind it’s a rather sticky situation. The homeowner, knowing there’s no reason for someone to break down his door, may naturally assume bad guys are coming through and respond accordingly. But the officers will of course enter assuming the BG is in the house. Since neither side knows the other is actually good guys, and when they first lay eyes on each other, both sides are armed, it sounds like the end game will be very bad for the civilian…and maybe a few officers also.
Maybe shouting “I’m armed and I’m calling 911� would help. Maybe it would help establish you’re a good guy since I doubt bad guys would shout such a thing. I’m sure there are several LEO’s on the forum, maybe they would tell us what they would want to hear to back down a little on pulling the trigger.
I think the bottom line is it’s going to turn out very bad for the civilian if they are really LE, but if he/she conducts themselves as if they’re LE and they are in fact bad guys, then they lose again.
Fortunately, for the vast majority of folks, this will never be an issue in present day society. LEO’s don’t spend a lot of time breaking into the wrong address, and BG don’t break into a lot of houses posing as LE (as percentage of the population).
Now if we assume this very rare incident did happen, what would I do? If I wasn’t very sure they were police, I would defend my family and myself. What other choice do I have since I’m a law abiding citizen and there’s absolutely no reason for LE to force an entry to my property? But if they are LEO’s, my choice could prove me dead wrong.
Sure glad the odds are I will never end up with LEO’s visiting my address by mistake!
Kind of off the subject, but instead of LE using addresses for a raid, why not GPS coordinates? From looking on the web, it seems many cases of wrong entry are due to the address getting scrambled (“North Main� gets typed as “South Main�), it’s harder to scramble a GPS “address�.
While I agree the best way to avoid having real LE come to your door is to lead a completely legal life, and require the same of those that live in your house, there are cases where LE has gone to the wrong address. Under those rare conditions, MrDrummy has a legitimate question. How should you conduct yourself? I believe it’s clear what your response should be if they are in fact BG’s…But what if they’re LEO?
In my mind it’s a rather sticky situation. The homeowner, knowing there’s no reason for someone to break down his door, may naturally assume bad guys are coming through and respond accordingly. But the officers will of course enter assuming the BG is in the house. Since neither side knows the other is actually good guys, and when they first lay eyes on each other, both sides are armed, it sounds like the end game will be very bad for the civilian…and maybe a few officers also.
Maybe shouting “I’m armed and I’m calling 911� would help. Maybe it would help establish you’re a good guy since I doubt bad guys would shout such a thing. I’m sure there are several LEO’s on the forum, maybe they would tell us what they would want to hear to back down a little on pulling the trigger.
I think the bottom line is it’s going to turn out very bad for the civilian if they are really LE, but if he/she conducts themselves as if they’re LE and they are in fact bad guys, then they lose again.
Fortunately, for the vast majority of folks, this will never be an issue in present day society. LEO’s don’t spend a lot of time breaking into the wrong address, and BG don’t break into a lot of houses posing as LE (as percentage of the population).
Now if we assume this very rare incident did happen, what would I do? If I wasn’t very sure they were police, I would defend my family and myself. What other choice do I have since I’m a law abiding citizen and there’s absolutely no reason for LE to force an entry to my property? But if they are LEO’s, my choice could prove me dead wrong.
Sure glad the odds are I will never end up with LEO’s visiting my address by mistake!
Kind of off the subject, but instead of LE using addresses for a raid, why not GPS coordinates? From looking on the web, it seems many cases of wrong entry are due to the address getting scrambled (“North Main� gets typed as “South Main�), it’s harder to scramble a GPS “address�.
I'm thinking that if I heard shots outside I would have had my pistol in my hand when I opened the door. Also they would have immediatly shown me
some identification reguardless what kind of clotheing they were wearing.
When night falls if anyone pulls in my driveway or knocks on my door and
when I go to the door I will have my pistol in my hand. I don't trust anyone
after dark when I can't see them. I geuss I missed reading that one of the robbers was injured.
some identification reguardless what kind of clotheing they were wearing.
When night falls if anyone pulls in my driveway or knocks on my door and
when I go to the door I will have my pistol in my hand. I don't trust anyone
after dark when I can't see them. I geuss I missed reading that one of the robbers was injured.
Interesting question that does pose some danger.
Case and point-2 weeks after we bought our home, LEO came to the door looking for the previous occupant. Seems as he was a major drug runner. We had to not only provide them access due to search warrant, but ID and papers where we bought the house.
In the 6+ years they have been back 9 times with arrest warrants for him. Seems as this is the last known address for him and no way to get it off of their records.
I guess I should note that he was renting the house from the previous owner.
Fortunately for us none of the warrants were no knock, or it could have been a bad situation for all.
Case and point-2 weeks after we bought our home, LEO came to the door looking for the previous occupant. Seems as he was a major drug runner. We had to not only provide them access due to search warrant, but ID and papers where we bought the house.
In the 6+ years they have been back 9 times with arrest warrants for him. Seems as this is the last known address for him and no way to get it off of their records.
I guess I should note that he was renting the house from the previous owner.
Fortunately for us none of the warrants were no knock, or it could have been a bad situation for all.
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HankB
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1394
- Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:03 pm
- Location: Central TX, just west of Austin
I've been reading newspaper stories about home invasions - and even traffic stops - by fake cops for some years now. It's a bit worrisome.
If you look out the window and see a couple of squad cars with lights flashing and uniformed officers approach your door and present a valid warrant, you peacefully comply with the warrant - that's a no brainer.
But if someone in plain clothes is breaking in, no marked units visible, does it really matter WHAT they shout? (This recently happened in Atlanta, with 3 officers wounded and a 92-year old woman dead.)
My own feeling is that, since I'm the original owner of my home and have never been involved in drug dealing, immigrant smuggling, shady tax dodges, unpaid parking tickets, or anything of the sort, any persons breaking in are NOT going to be LEOs, so they will be regarded as a real and immediate danger to myself and my family, and dealt with accordingly to the best of my ability.
But I don't lose a lot of sleep agonizing over unlikely scenarios like this.
If you look out the window and see a couple of squad cars with lights flashing and uniformed officers approach your door and present a valid warrant, you peacefully comply with the warrant - that's a no brainer.
But if someone in plain clothes is breaking in, no marked units visible, does it really matter WHAT they shout? (This recently happened in Atlanta, with 3 officers wounded and a 92-year old woman dead.)
My own feeling is that, since I'm the original owner of my home and have never been involved in drug dealing, immigrant smuggling, shady tax dodges, unpaid parking tickets, or anything of the sort, any persons breaking in are NOT going to be LEOs, so they will be regarded as a real and immediate danger to myself and my family, and dealt with accordingly to the best of my ability.
But I don't lose a lot of sleep agonizing over unlikely scenarios like this.
Original CHL: 2000: 56 day turnaround
1st renewal, 2004: 34 days
2nd renewal, 2008: 81 days
3rd renewal, 2013: 12 days
1st renewal, 2004: 34 days
2nd renewal, 2008: 81 days
3rd renewal, 2013: 12 days
HankB wrote:My own feeling is that, since I'm the original owner of my home and have never been involved in drug dealing, immigrant smuggling, shady tax dodges, unpaid parking tickets, or anything of the sort, any persons breaking in are NOT going to be LEOs, so they will be regarded as a real and immediate danger to myself and my family, and dealt with accordingly to the best of my ability.
But I don't lose a lot of sleep agonizing over unlikely scenarios like this.
