Can I draw my gun and make a citizens arrest

[philip964]

One of my friends was scammed last weekend. There was a discussion about what could have been done, I suggested a person could have drawn on the men and made a citzen's arrest until the police arrived. We all pretty much agreed that the only one arrested would have been the person who drew the gun.

But I wasn't sure. So all of you armchair lawyers please chime in. You will also learn a valuable lesson on one way not to get scammed.

My friend just bought a house and was moving in town. They went to the internet to find their mover, after looking at references and reviews on the web they found Olympic Movers a nationwide company based in New York. Went to the website got a local phone number and contacted them. They quoted $500 for the move and set up a appointment to make the move. (He is young and doesn't have much stuff yet and most of it is not very valuable)

The two moving guys arrived one with a clip board. He filled in their names on a contract and had them sign it. The name was not Olympic Moving at the top so he called the phone number and the guy said he had overbooked that weekend and that they were his subcontractors and he had used them a lot so everything would be fine. He didn't read all the fine print at the bottom and signed the form (contract)

They packed up and moved the truck to the new location. When they arrived the man with the clip board said that they would need to pay now before they unloaded and said he needed $2000 in cash.

What, it was suppose to be $500 and why cash? Well that's what the contract had said. $500 was only for the basic move and they got $50 for everything they wrapped in bubble wrap and since the wrapped 30 items in bubble wrap they got an additional $1500 per the contract. If they did not pay, and in cash right now they would take everything to a warehouse and it would be unloaded and stored and it would be even more to get it then. Per the contract in seven days they could sell everything.

My friend said they would call the police. The man encouraged them to do just that. The police will do nothing it is a civil matter, we have a contract. He called the phone number to complain and the man said he would cover the additional amount and to just pay them, he would refund the additional charges.

They thought about just letting the guys have the stuff, but did not want to loose their computer. So they scrambled and got the cash and the two men unloaded everything and left.

They obviously have a bad taste in their mouths and feel so stupid. Since the weekend they have found the website is what as known as a mirror site and is not related to Olympic Movers. They don't have the names of the two guys or even a receipt for the cash. The local phone number won't talk to them anymore.

If they had called the police, the men may have left with their stuff as the police don't respond immediately to this sort of thing. They could have photographed the license plate of the truck, to track someone down.

So could you have called the police and if they tried to leave could you have drawn and made a citizens arrest?

These obviously are crooks (hard working ones though) or maybe just scammers, the other concern would be they were big, tough dudes and could have been carrying (and legally too). They also could have been exactly right, this is a civil matter the police will not get involved, unless you maybe pulled your gun.

My friend also realizes he was lucky. Other people in Houston have paid a lot more than $2000 to get their stuff back.

http://www.khou.com/news/Fort-Bend-Coun ... 77434.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[apostate]

Read contracts before you sign them.

[RottenApple]

Everything those movers did was perfectly legal. If you or someone else there had drawn a weapon you would be taking a ride and, most likely, facing criminal charges.

[Dave2]

Yeah, what the movers did was dirty and underhanded, but not illegal.

In general, I think it's only legal to pull your gun on someone if it'd be legal to shoot them. At least that' my rule.

[pbwalker]

Read contracts before you sign them.

Lesson learned

[gigag04]

Only if you have your CHL badge/sash


(been a while)

[THX]

Despite the unsavory bait-and-switch you experienced, drawing a gun to prevent the loss of property you know can be retrieved through other means is a big problem.

[PracticalTactical]

That U-Haul rental looked expensive, that is until he found out how much it really cost to move. Nobody but me, myself and I (plus family, friends or people I hire as assistants) moves my stuff. Nobody but me drives the vehicles that move my stuff. Nobody but the beforementioned people unloads my stuff.

As far as use of deadly force goes, as friendly as Texas law is to using deadly force for defense of property, I don't think it'll cover you in that situation.

But, the people working for these moving companies are eventually going to meet a bad end. Peradventure they move a drug dealer, or a gun smuggler or somebody else with no regard for the law....I'd bet they get shot, they get buried out in the woods/plains/desert (depending on what part of Texas they are operating in), and nobody else ever sees them again.

It's an incredibly stupid thing to do.

[longtooth]

Very good responses & for sure the only one or ones being arrested would be the CHL holder for sure and any others that were "accomplices"

[C-dub]

Only if you have your CHL badge/sash


(been a while)

Not long enough.

[kjolly]

Never draw a weapon other than in defense of deadly force and in fear of your safety. You are not a police officer and have no responsiblity or privilege to hold anyone at gun point. Never draw your weapon unless you are already intending to pull the trigger also.

[speedsix]

Yeah, what the movers did was dirty and underhanded, but not illegal.

In general, I think it's only legal to pull your gun on someone if it'd be legal to shoot them. At least that' my rule.

...the state agrees with you, Dave2 PC9:04... if you can justify the USE of deadly force by what's in Chapter 9, then you may also threaten to use deadly force... THEN AND ONLY THEN....so...you read the whole chapter...and your scenario doesn't fit it...so NO......the written law is your friend..learn it...you also need to look up the occasions where you may make a citizen's arrest...you can get in more trouble for falsely arresting someone than you can for shooting them...freedom is taken seriously in Texas...(this to the OP)...

[speedsix]

Never draw a weapon other than in defense of deadly force and in fear of your safety. You are not a police officer and have no responsiblity or privilege to hold anyone at gun point. Never draw your weapon unless you are already intending to pull the trigger also.

...first sentence is good advice...second is not completely true...there are occasions where you and I have the privilege to hold someone at gunpoint...one of them would be an armed robber who had thrown down his gun...or a rapist who is unarmed...third sentence is my policy, too...can't see talking and giving them the edge...if they see my gun, it's already too late for warnings...and a surprising lot of folks today aren't the least bit afraid of a gun being pointed at them...they're fools for a lot of other reasons, too...

[knotquiteawake]

What a bummer man! Last time I moved I used a moving company as well. After reading up on all the different horror stories I was hyper aware of any kind of shenanagains that they might try. Everything checked out though, they didn't try to rip me off, and only one bit of furniture was damaged. There's no way my friends would ever have forgiven me for asking them to help me move in 100+ degree weather. Those movers got a substantial tip for their hard work.
If you ever move again or somebody in the DFW area reads this and needs a mover that isn't going to rip you off (as far as I know) check out :
Apple Moving
2653 Myrtle Springs
Dallas, Tx. 75220
Office: 972-239-0399
fax: 214-366-2936
http://www.applemovingdfw.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There are two different "Apple moving" companies I think just to make your life difficult, the info above is the one I used.


On the legal side of things, did you have a copy of the contract before they showed up and then they presented you with a different contact when they arrived? Did company go over all the possible charges in any e-mails or letters? Even if the $50 per item is in the contact you may have a legal case if you have e-mails or something indicating you are paying for the move only, or no extra charges. If thats the case you can claim "detrimental reliance", In other words you relied on the e-mails from the company indicating no extra charges to your detriment.

[philip964]

Yes they realize that now.

Of course the Southpark cartoon segment where one of the boys upgrades his ipad software but doesn't read the contract is hilarious. And I am sure you have all read the back of your rental car agreement too.

Why is it that in the Fort Bend case:

"Investigators in Fort Bend County continue to look into the incident and ask anyone who has been a victim of a similar scam to contact the Sherriff’s office at (281) 341-4665." Or is that just eyewash to make the voters believe the Sherriff has their back.

An attorney is reviewing the contract language, I'll get back to you on what he says.