Any thoughts on this? What would you have done?

[texas-sig]

http://www.elpasotimes.com/newupdated/ci_19869912" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[speedsix]

...nothing in the story justifies him bringing a shotgun outside...nothing justifies firing a shot...I'd have called the police to remove them...it can get mighty frustratin' when youngsters don't respect anything or anyone...but nothing in the story requires a gun...Texas PC9.41 (a) might barely cover him pushing and shoving them off his property...but nothing here fits 9.42...if what the story says is all there was to it...I wouldn't have done more than stick my head out and tell them to leave...then called the police...especially if they were juveniles...

[ninesecond95]

I have just turned 69 and understand the fear of potential violence with a single out of controll teenager, much less three. Probable should have called for LEO as an ideal answer. But, I feel his response was not unjustified.

[E.Marquez]

69 years old? Three teens in my back hard, then coming to my front? Told to leave.. If the dogs did not drive them away and back over my fence (not sure if there is a fence in the story in question) then yup, I would be fearful for my life,,,LEO gets called, and the aggressors can leave, stay put and deal with LEO, or step forward in any threatening manner, in which case I would assess a direct threat to my life and drop the one I observed to be the leader. The others can leave, stay put and deal with LEO, or step forward in any threatening manner, in which case in would assess a direct threat to my life and drop the closest one. Repeat until all threat has ceased and or LEO is on sight to take over.

[Excaliber]

69 years old? Three teens in my back hard, then coming to my front? Told to leave.. If the dogs did not drive them away and back over my fence (not sure if there is a fence in the story in question) then yup, I would be fearful for my life,,,LEO gets called, and the aggressors can leave, stay put and deal with LEO, or step forward in any threatening manner, in which case I would assess a direct threat to my life and drop the one I observed to be the leader. The others can leave, stay put and deal with LEO, or step forward in any threatening manner, in which case in would assess a direct threat to my life and drop the closest one. Repeat until all threat has ceased and or LEO is on sight to take over.

Explaining why you think it's a good idea to respond to a trespass with a homicide is a pretty tough case to make under the law. As Speedsix pointed out, you'd find no justification for those actions under the penal code.

You might say you weren't responding to the trespass, but to the trespasser's step toward you after you unnecessarily escalated the situation by going outside with a gun.

The boys in blue wouldn't be buying it. They'd hook you and book you - you can count on it.

[E.Marquez]

69 years old? Three teens in my back hard, then coming to my front? Told to leave.. If the dogs did not drive them away and back over my fence (not sure if there is a fence in the story in question) then yup, I would be fearful for my life,,,LEO gets called, and the aggressors can leave, stay put and deal with LEO, or step forward in any threatening manner, in which case I would assess a direct threat to my life and drop the one I observed to be the leader. The others can leave, stay put and deal with LEO, or step forward in any threatening manner, in which case in would assess a direct threat to my life and drop the closest one. Repeat until all threat has ceased and or LEO is on sight to take over.

Explaining why you think it's a good idea to respond to a trespass with a homicide is a pretty tough case to make under the law. As Speedsix pointed out, you'd find no justification for those actions under the penal code.

You might say you weren't responding to the trespass, but to the trespasser's step toward you after you unnecessarily escalated the situation by going outside with a gun.

The boys in blue wouldn't be buying it. They'd hook you and book you - you can count on it.

I suppose I understand your reply, and knew it was coming.. as you have no way of reading my mind and knowing what assumptions I was making mentally when I wrote that.

My reply was not in response to trespass.

My reply was written in that a criminal trespass had taken place twice, crossed a physically barrier (fence), I mention my dogs being involved (that’s not in the OP’s story), the criminals being warned to depart the property (both my version and the OP’s story), and that the aggressors moved toward me in a threatening manner. Going outside your home armed is not a crime. In that a criminal takes your legal act as threatening and attacks you is where I answered from.. Not three teens TP’ing my front yard tree and I run outside with a shotgun yelling “GET OFF MY LAWN”

Being on the property, front yard and back, .. Being verbally aggressive, failing to get off the property when directed to do so, told the LAW was on the way, still refusing to leave AND THEY THEN moved toward me in a threatening manner .. THAT was the scenario I set up and replied to.

That scene taken out of context and or changed to something else of course makes my response seem inappropriate.
I should not have added to the OP’s story scenario, I see how that confused the answer and position I was taking.

Strictly in response to the question posed to the story as written, with no other info.
Call the LAW, maintain visual of the criminals (trespass), remain armed, but behind cover (inside the house) await the police or the criminals further threatening action. Allow the LAW to deal with criminals so long as they did not make a threatening move toward me, or attempt to gain entrance to the house or any attached structure (garage)

I confused the question and response by adding a more likely scenario of which I would encounter in real live at my home.. vice what I read about in a internet news story.

[karder]

I live close to that area, and the gang problem has grown significantly over the past 5 years in these neighborhoods. I am not saying this guy should have shot them, but these kids were bangers looking for trouble and they almost found it. Those kids jumped his back fence, probably thinking no one was home and hoping to peek in a window to see if there was something worth breaking in for. When he confronted them, they decided to stand their ground and give him lip.
I have run into a number of kids on my street who would benefit greatly from a backside full of buckshot. It may save their lives if it gets them to stay off the street, stop taunting retirees, and be in school like they are supposed to be. I have zero sympathy for them. Our laws geared toward protecting kids like these, which is why they are running amuck.

[speedsix]

...whatever they did or didn't do...attitude had a lot to do with it...pepper spray is force...but not deadly force...might have eased them on their way...

[Wes]

Im new to all of this and still waiting on my plastic, but i have been around guns all my life and nothing in the story justifies bringing a gun out. A gun should be a last resort outside your house, especially firing one. Tell them to leave, if they do not listen, call the cops and keep an eye on them from a safe place. Hold on to your gun in the house if you so desire, but no need to take it outside IMO. Maybe, maybe...if this was a daily occurrance and they were loitering on his property all the time, hanging out, littering, doing potential damage, cops have been called multiple times yet it continues, then i might see where one could think threat of deadly force would be appropriate. How likely is that scenario though? Unless you have done something to provoke them, in which case you could lose any justification according to the law for using/threatening said force.

[speedsix]

...good points...yet even if it was a habitual thing...deadly force is still not justified...when I first read it, I thought of kids going to and from the school...they commonly cut through in our neighborhood where some of us don't have back fences...cutting a block or two off their walk...I've done that before myself...in broad daylight...I'll be watching to see what the decision of the prosecuting attorney is...

[RoyGBiv]

Referring to the OP...
3 trespassers in my yard. Asked them to leave, I assume.
Same 3 trespassers moved to my front yard. Again, asked to leave, I assume.

My response.
1. Prepare a defense.
2. Call 911

That said.... I believe I would be completely within my rights to go outside, remaining on MY PROPERTY with my shotgun. Is this the wisest thing to do? No.

IMO, firing the warning shot would be "illegal discharge" unless there was some further provocation that justified USE of deadly force before LE arrived.

But I am not a lawyer, and I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[E.Marquez]

Im new to all of this and still waiting on my plastic, but i have been around guns all my life and nothing in the story justifies bringing a gun out.

You are posting on a concealed carry web forum, you implied you have taken a CHL course and are waiting on your "plastic"

I assume your intent is to actually carry a concealed weapon. If so, walking outside your house will entail "bringing a gun out."

Bottom line, I prefer to be armed and not need it, then need it and not be armed.. Kind of the base mentality to procuring a license and training to carry a concealed weapon.

To each his own.. But me? , when exiting his home to tell trespassers in my yard to depart and that law enforcement have been called, will be doing so armed... and if it's MY house I’m exiting, where I store several long guns, which are more proficient at stopping a deadly threat then my CHL weapon.. I'll be bringing one of those long guns with me... Prefer not to need it, but if I need it, I'll be happy it's in my hands, not in a gun safe inside the house.

On the “warning shot” thing, ya, not my position that it was called for, or wise, not to mention, likely illegal. The warning is verbal, the defense is a series of well aimed shots designed to strike, and stop the threat.

[Wes]

Bringing a gun out as in His shotgun, a concealed pistol is quite a bit different. I agree it would be better to defend yourself if needed, the main reason i have one, but its unneseary. Waving a gun around just to give someone oral notice to vacate the property is a bit much, especially to some kids who have done nothing wrong but stand in your grass and maybe call you names. To each his own though, but I'm not risky further issues just because of something so minor,

[gigag04]

What would I do?

By the time I'm in my 60s I'm pretty sure I'll get to the I don't care phase. I would've fired a shot in the air, let the kids fall in my piranha stocked moat, or turned loose an angry dog on them. I also wouldnt be going to the dept. You can have a detective come to my house and speak with me...and my lawyer.


Since I'm not 60...I probably would do none of the above.

[texanron]

I would have stuck my head out the door and politely told them they were trespassing on private property. They should know that but kids today are misinformed about many things. If they mouth off at that statement I would tell them they can explain themselves to the police because they're on the way.