SSN for TX CHL

[SA-TX]

Hello all,

I will be renewing my CHL later this year. I gave my SSN during the original application process due to the requirement that you not be delinquent on child support or school loans. Since then there have been significant court rulings and AG opinions in other states against such SSN disclosure. So, I sent an inquiry to the DPS CHL alias and asked that it be forwarded to their lawyers. They did and I got back a fairly boilerplate response giving citations to the Family Code and to one court case which deals with a Plumber's license, not a CHL.

The reply from them claims that everything in it is confidential and without having counsel to know whether or not that is true, I'm not going to post it verbetim, but I don't see how a summary in my own words could be actionable.

My initial email essentially said:

The use of SSNs is governed by the Privacy Act and other exceptions as outlined in federal law and any state requirement to the contrary must yield. There have been at least 2 federal courts that have ruled against SSN disclosure for gun licenses, several AG opinions, and many states that either specify that the SSN is optional or don't ask for it at all. Given this, is it mandatory to disclose for a Texas CHL?

Their reply was to cite Family Code 231.203 of which (c) cites 42 U.S.C. 601-617 and 661-669. They also cited Mauldin vs. Texas State Board Plumbing Examiners, 94 S.W.3d 867, 2002 Tex. App. LEXIS 9260 (Tex. App. Austin 2002).

Here is my response, since they focued entirely on state statutes and my point is the this is governed federal law. I haven't yet received a reply.

Charles / other attorneys: I would be curious to know your thoughts.

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Hello all,

Please bear with me as I’m not an attorney. I’m given to understand that federal law controls how SSNs are used and there are federal court decisions directly on point ruling AGAINST the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and State of Georgia in enforcing their carry license laws that also mandate the collection of the SSN. There are also state AG opinions and state/local court rulings as well.

Here’s what I don’t understand, taking the following as facts:

1) Federal law dictates how SSNs are to be used, notwithstanding any state law to the contrary.

2) Federal law in the Privacy Act of 1974 sets the base line that SSN are only allowed for pre-1975 state/local uses or where specifically authorized/required by another federal law. See the beginning of this thread for a citation.

3) 42 USC 666 (a)(13) lays out what types of licenses a state is required to gather an SSN for. The Family Code itself sites several sections, including this one, its authority. Thus for any state requirement to be valid, the federal statute must require/authorize it.

4) DOES A CHL FALL INTO ONE OF THE CATEOGORIES SPELLED OUT IN (A)(13) or any other section of the Code? If it does not, absent another authorization under federal law, state law mandating disclosure conflicts with the Privacy Act and must yield.

From these facts, I conclude the following. Please help me understand the State of Texas’ position.

5) Mauldin is very distinguishable to the situation here. He made an equal protection argument under the Texas Constitution about being treated differently. As the court notes, this fails easily because ALL applicants for a plumber’s license must disclose. A plumber’s license is easily within 42 USC 666(a)(13)’s reach as an “occupational� or “professional� license. It is highly debatable whether or not a CHL falls into any of those categories. “Recreational� is the closest I can see and a very good argument can be made that a CHL gives no “recreational� benefit unlike a hunting or fishing license.

6) At least two federal District Courts who have heard similar challenges have ruled against the state’s law contrary to the Privacy Act. Stollenwerk (http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documents/ ... D0225P.pdf) and Camp (http://www.georgiapacking.org/SSN_TRO.pdf)

7) Given that 42 USC 666(a)(13) applies to ALL states that participate in the Social Security and public welfare programs – which is all of them although they are not required to do so and risk only the loss of funding – why do so many NOT require an SSN as a condition of receiving a firearms license or concealed carry permit? Several Attorneys General have opined that the SSN, as far as firearms licenses are concerned, is protected information and may not be required.

8) Federal firearms laws themselves do NOT require the use of an SSN. When a gun buyer fills out a BATFE form to purchase a firearm from a federally licensed dealer, the SSN field is specifically described as “optional�. Further, the Brady instant check system similarly does NOT rely on an SSN as an identifier. Why is that?

In conclusion, unlike a plumber’s license or any of the many other licenses that fall within the purview of 42 U.S.C. 666(a)(13), a CHL is arguably not among those for which federal authorization for collection of the SSN is given and thus prohibited by the Privacy Act. Two federal courts, several state courts, and several Attorneys General have concluded this and I humbly request that you research this thoroughly.

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[KBCraig]

You should probably be having this conversation with the AG's office instead of DPS.

But it looks like you're done a lot of research, and I salute you for that. I also hate the use of the SSN where it's not appropriate.

Kevin

[SA-TX]

You should probably be having this conversation with the AG's office instead of DPS.

But it looks like you're done a lot of research, and I salute you for that. I also hate the use of the SSN where it's not appropriate.

Kevin

Kevin,

I would but the AG's office will only give opinions to a particular set of state officials. DPS, of course, could request one. I'm hoping that they will. So can the chairmen of committees of the Legislature. If anyone has any pull with one and could make it happen, that would be nice. While you are at it, have them opine on the "a building or part of a building" situation with courts and court offices. That one burns me up and I know it does Charles from his prior posts on the subject.

Thanks. I've tried to be diligent in my research but I hope Charles or another attorney with this type speciality would weigh in.

[nitrogen]

Most state AG's wont give opinions to private individuals, only government, so I think you're doing it the right way.

Having said that, I salute you for this effort. I hate giving my SSN for ANYTHING, but i've been so worn down about it over the years I just grudgingly grumble about it now.

[Greybeard]

FWIW, there was something on the SS# topic in one of the recent Hunter Ed. instructor newsletters from Texas Parks and Wildlife, who is obviously getting some major complaints about it as well.

The bottom line is that a student does not necessarily have to provide it on the (Scantron) student registration form completed in class and subsequently submitted to Austin. But, current policy is that one does have to provide it to a hunting license vendor (such as Wal-Mart) - or TP&W will not (supposedly can not) issue a hunting license. Methinks somehow associated with delinquent child support payments ...