Authority of local LEOs not in city where employed.

[C-dub]

Some more questions came to mind because of a few threads.

1. If a LEO is working security for someone what authority do they have?

2. Do they have the full authority of their badge even though they are not "on duty" with the city's police department?

3. Are they just like any other armed security guard?

4. What authority does an armed security guard have?

[WildBill]

I am looking forward to posts by LEOs.

Here is some of the relavent law:
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /CR.14.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.cca.courts.state.tx.us/opinions/007002c.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://pacs.unt.edu/criminal-justice/co ... icer-texas" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It depends on the nature of the offense.

[WildBill]

I think the answer to No 2 is that an LEO has the authority of an LEO 24 hrs a day. I can't find any law that says they only have the authority while "on-duty" or getting paid by their department. It wouldn't make any sense to have it otherwise. Likewise, it wouldn't matter if they were in or out of uniform. The badge doesn't give the LEO authority, it is merely a symbol or "proof" of that authority.

[C-dub]

I think the answer to No 2 is that an LEO has the authority of an LEO 24 hrs a day. I can't find any law that says they only have the authority while "on-duty" or getting paid by their department. It wouldn't make any sense to have it otherwise. Likewise, it wouldn't matter if they were in or out of uniform. The badge doesn't give the LEO authority, it is merely a symbol or "proof" of that authority.

I don't have any problem with that in the city they are employed by. Where it get's fuzzy for me is if someone is a Dallas LEO, but lives in one of the suburbs or even works part time for another company as security not in Dallas.

[gigag04]

They can enforce everything except traffic offenses. They are still Licensed Texas Peace officers.


Can I licensed plumber only fix pipes in his city?

[WildBill]

I think the answer to No 2 is that an LEO has the authority of an LEO 24 hrs a day. I can't find any law that says they only have the authority while "on-duty" or getting paid by their department. It wouldn't make any sense to have it otherwise. Likewise, it wouldn't matter if they were in or out of uniform. The badge doesn't give the LEO authority, it is merely a symbol or "proof" of that authority.

I don't have any problem with that in the city they are employed by. Where it get's fuzzy for me is if someone is a Dallas LEO, but lives in one of the suburbs or even works part time for another company as security not in Dallas.

I don't think that a security guard has any more authority than any citizen, except the authority given to him by the employer. That authority would only include acting as their representative to ask a person to not enter or leave the property or place of business.

This talks about the jurisdication of peace officer's in Texas:
http://pacs.unt.edu/criminal-justice/co ... icer-texas" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[WildBill]

They can enforce everything except traffic offenses. They are still Licensed Texas Peace officers.

So it doesn't matter if they are in your city or county of employment, whether or not they are "on-duty", working private security, going to school or sleeping, they still have the same authority.

[C-dub]

They can enforce everything except traffic offenses. They are still Licensed Texas Peace officers.


Can I licensed plumber only fix pipes in his city?

Okay. I'm seeing this from a new angle. An officer is not authorized by the city they are employed by, but rather the state? So, why not traffic offenses? Is that because if a Dallas officer were to write someone a ticket in Plano the fine wouldn't go to Plano or that there is no mechanism to get it to Plano? That might go back to Charles' and many others' theory about speeding tickets only being money grabs and that the frequency of them would severely decrease if the $$ went to the state instead of into the city's pockets. I might not have that paraphrased correctly. Sorry.

[srothstein]

In general, a peace officer has full authority of a peace officer any time and any place in Texas. They are required to respond to actions within their jurisdiction 24 hours day based on CCP Article 2.13. Rememebr that traffic offenses are crimes in Texas and covered by this section.

Then we get their authority to arrest. This is in CCP Chapter 14. There is a conflict in this chapter which could prove interesting. Article 14.01 says any offense but Article 14.03 says only certain types of offenses. Article 14.03(g)(1) limits the arrest authority even further to stop traffic tickets if outside their jurisdiction for some officers (sheriffs, constables, and DA investigators). Article 14.03(g)(2) then also limits the authority of town marshals and municipal police to write traffic tickets if outside their jurisdiction but in the same county. Other officers, such as education police, water police, etc. are not limited this way. This is going to lead to an interesting court case one day if an officer makes an arrest and claims it was under the authority granted him in 14.01 instead of under 14.03. I bet the courts would say that 14.03 is dominant but it will be an interesting case if the officer and lawyer are good enough.

It is important to note that the authority is not limited by duty status. It is based solely on their status as a peace officer.

As for security guards, their authority is exactly the same as yours. The laws refer to people in general, or to peace officers. In a few cases, it will mention a person working under the authority and direction of a peace officer (the old posse is still allowed in Texas). The only laws I know of that grant any extra power to security guards are those in Chapter 46 of the Penal Code that allow them to carry weapons.

The other authority that everyone forgets is in Article 18.16. This is the one that allows anyone to arrest a thief if they still have the stolen merchandise. It is primarily targeted at stopping shoplifters. It also applies to any person in Texas.

[WildBill]

In general, a peace officer has full authority of a peace officer any time and any place in Texas...

Thank you Steve.

[C-dub]

In general, a peace officer has full authority of a peace officer any time and any place in Texas...

Thank you Steve.

No kidding. That's good stuff. I started coming around to that conclusion after GigAg's post and I realized that an officer's authority derived from their license granted by the state.

[talltex]

They can enforce everything except traffic offenses. They are still Licensed Texas Peace officers.


Can I licensed plumber only fix pipes in his city?

Okay. I'm seeing this from a new angle. An officer is not authorized by the city they are employed by, but rather the state? So, why not traffic offenses? Is that because if a Dallas officer were to write someone a ticket in Plano the fine wouldn't go to Plano or that there is no mechanism to get it to Plano? That might go back to Charles' and many others' theory about speeding tickets only being money grabs and that the frequency of them would severely decrease if the $$ went to the state instead of into the city's pockets. I might not have that paraphrased correctly. Sorry.

I can think of one real good reason why they would not want off duty officers trying to enforce traffic laws...how would they get anyone to pull over? If I'm driving, unless I see flashing lights and an official looking patrol unit, I'm simply not stopping.

[LeonCarr]

As a general rule, a Texas Peace Officer outside of his jurisdiction can exercise his/her Peace Officer powers of arrest, search, and seizure while observing a felony in view or any actions (Public Intoxication, Disorderly Conduct) that causes an immediate breach of the peace.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[C-dub]

They can enforce everything except traffic offenses. They are still Licensed Texas Peace officers.


Can I licensed plumber only fix pipes in his city?

Okay. I'm seeing this from a new angle. An officer is not authorized by the city they are employed by, but rather the state? So, why not traffic offenses? Is that because if a Dallas officer were to write someone a ticket in Plano the fine wouldn't go to Plano or that there is no mechanism to get it to Plano? That might go back to Charles' and many others' theory about speeding tickets only being money grabs and that the frequency of them would severely decrease if the $$ went to the state instead of into the city's pockets. I might not have that paraphrased correctly. Sorry.

I can think of one real good reason why they would not want off duty officers trying to enforce traffic laws...how would they get anyone to pull over? If I'm driving, unless I see flashing lights and an official looking patrol unit, I'm simply not stopping.

That part's a given, but I see LEOs from different cities driving through another city all the time. Usually on the highway, but now always.

[gigag04]

LEOs have lots of business besides traffic in other cities ie:

Case followup
Warrant service
Transporting prisoner with neighboring warrants
Going to court
Training
Take home vehicle going home