What would you do???

[Wildscar]

I know I have the fever bad when I'm walking thought Wal-Mart looking at everyone trying to decide if they might be packin. Then I got to thinking about a scenario that could arise. (hopefully not but you never know)I know this would be just a what if type of thing and no one really knows how its going to play out should the real thing ever happen.

Imagine that you are looking over the sporting goods section of your local (Insert favorite mall or department store where CHL are permitted to carry.) looking though the sporting goods and notice that your favorite practice ammo is on sale and your (Wife/Girlfriend/Mother/Father/Brother/Sister/Child Insert one or more of your own choosing or none either way.) is in another part of the store. You hear gun shots . You know that lives are in danger. You pull you weapon to go save lives. While making your way cautiously to where you think the gun shots came from. From around the corner comes another person with a firearm. What would you do?

Reason I ask is what if that guy at the end of the lane is me doing the same thing you are doing.

Is there something we need to think about as kind of a sign to each other that we are not the Bad Guy? Like a colored bandana that you could hold that would hang down as a sign that "I aint the BG" Or do we just hope our instincts will tell us the difference between the BG and a fellow CHL holder.

A coworker said that you have to announce yourself. If this is true then this scenario becomes a moot point.

[txinvestigator]

I know I have the fever bad when I'm walking thought Wal-Mart looking at everyone trying to decide if they might be packin. Then I got to thinking about a scenario that could arise. (hopefully not but you never know)I know this would be just a what if type of thing and no one really knows how its going to play out should the real thing ever happen.

Imagine that you are looking over the sporting goods section of your local (Insert favorite mall or department store where CHL are permitted to carry.) looking though the sporting goods and notice that your favorite practice ammo is on sale and your (Wife/Girlfriend/Mother/Father/Brother/Sister/Child Insert one or more of your own choosing or none either way.) is in another part of the store. You hear gun shots . You know that lives are in danger. You pull you weapon to go save lives. While making your way cautiously to where you think the gun shots came from. From around the corner comes another person with a firearm. What would you do?

Reason I ask is what if that guy at the end of the lane is me doing the same thing you are doing.

Is there something we need to think about as kind of a sign to each other that we are not the Bad Guy? Like a colored bandana that you could hold that would hang down as a sign that "I aint the BG" Or do we just hope our instincts will tell us the difference between the BG and a fellow CHL holder.

A coworker said that you have to announce yourself. If this is true then this scenario becomes a moot point.

This is a tough scenario. One where you are likely to either get shot or shoot the wrong person.

I know this has been beat to death here, but IMO, it is perilous and ill advised for an untrained person to take on an active shooter scenario.

[longtooth]

This is valid. I have talked w/ a couple of LEOs about it.

I would not draw until I started getting close to the shooting area.
Start giving loud orders immediately.
Get down, go out that exit, move over, .... what ever is the appropriate thing for them to do. give orders loud & sheeple will tend to do it.

As soon as you draw annonce your status. I find many do not know what a CHL is. Under those conditions I have practiced hollering "Permit to carry" dont know if it will work & hope I never have to find out.

Find my folks & they are my first responsibinlty.

We have worked on this as a family.
When Mom goes to town w/ us she usually goes her own way in any big store. That makes 3 armed people for sure & how many more.
I have never personally seen more than 2 other individuals that I knew were armed in the same store w/ us but that makes 5 again, "how many more". As more & more Texans get CHLs, sooner or later this is going to happen. We all need to think about it.
I do not think this is a left field what if, but a when & where will it happen first.

[rkeller]

Given the circumstances you layed out, I would probably work my way (quickly but carefully) to my wife/mother/whatever. Once with them, find something to hide behind and be ready to fight if forced to. If someone wants to shoot up the other patrons of the store, well those patrons should have bothered to get a CHL and carried. If someone threatening comes after me/mine and will not stop with told to, well I guess I will need a lawyer and the other guy will need a doctor. -Rob

[longtooth]

Yes sir.
Welcome aboard. Glad to have you.
Give us an intro in the General Gun Section under "Introduce yourself."
You will get a lot of welcomes.

[kauboy]

If someone wants to shoot up the other patrons of the store, well those patrons should have bothered to get a CHL and carried.

Yikes!!!
Poor folks. While I would definitely ensure the safety of my family first, I would at least offer as much help as possible for the others to get them out the door as quickly as possible. It may not be my responsibility to protect them, but I don't have to leave them for the potential slaughter.

In any event, if you aren't the bad guy, you will no doubt be acting differently than he. I personally would draw my gun at the first sounds of gunfire. I don't want to stumble onto a lunatic and not be ready. My best guess to avoid ensuing further panic would be to simulate the mannerisms of a cop that the sheeple might see on TV.(Pleas notice that I did not say "pretend to be a cop", let the people assume what they wish) Hopefully they will treat me as such and not panic. Keep the weapon low, not pointed around like a crazed shooter. Like longtooth suggested, announcing yourself to panic stricken folks is probably a good idea. Giving them any order that doesn't seem aggressive will most likely draw compliance and shift their focus away from you, and toward the exit.

The key is, keep a level head. Know your surroundings and be as keen an observer of the people around you as you can, under such stressful circumstance. Call the police, find your family, and GET OUT!!!

[stevie_d_64]

Me???

I will not draw my concealed weapon at the sound of gunfire in another part of a big store like WalMart...

In this senario, I would be encouraging people to be leaving in another direction away from the gunfire we heard...All the time trying to get family member on the cellphone who may be nearer to that gunfire...

I'm actually quite confident in a couple of my family members ability to not become a liability in a situation like this, and to be able to take care of their area (or bubble) in the case something like this happens...My phone call to them is to basically know if they are heading out, or pinned down and unable to move due to this attack...

At which point I'll know to relax and see them outside the building, or if the police are unable to make a timely response, I may decide to give the BeeGees something harder to deal with, so that those folks (and or family) pinned down can egress the area away from them...

But I see this as another one of those hard cases where I'm not sure it'll be a win-win situation...For anyone...

And if the likelyhood of something like this happening, say it may have happened elswhere around the world or our country, and that "soft targets" are becoming the rave for certain criminal and or terrorist organizations...We (family) wouldn't be patronizing places like this to begin with...

Of course there are always firsts...And that is going to have to be a call you're going to have to live or die with...

[OverEasy]

Wildscar,
This was a good thread: http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... ight=shoot

It was about "If you can't shoot it don't show it."

I wouldn't draw inside Wal-Mart, etc. just because I heard something that sounded like gun fire. Civilian colthes, gun in hand. I wouldn't want to be mistaken for a BG.

I would seek cover that gave me a good view and my hand would be on it but still concealed.

I hope I wouldn't see anyone in civies with a gun in hand comming in my direction............ could turn out bad for all involved.

Regards, OE

[Rex B]

Well, I don't go to Wal-Mart, and my wife doesn't either. If they catch me shopping I'll be at home online or at a gun store.
And I don't think anyone's going to try to shoot up Cabelas

[Thane]

For all I know, those gunshots were fired by a fellow CHL-er at a knife-wielding assailant. If so, that poor CHL-er will be hopped up on adrenaline himself, and likely to respond "most unfavorably" to another man with a gun. (I seem to remember a news story of a CHL-er actually being in this position, protecting an employee from a deranged ex armed with a knife... in Wal-Mart, no less)

If I decide to get involved, figuring out what's going on takes first priority, above even drawing my own weapon.

[Wildscar]

Thats all some good info. I ll have to keep all that in mind. Hopefully none of use will ever have to do it. But things like this can happen anywhere. I didnt think about when I made my original post but the kid that shot up a mall in Utah or somewhere up north a few months ago shows that you never know when it can happen. Thanks for all the pointers from you seasoned CHL carriers. Everylittle bit of info helps.

[GlockenHammer]

Shots in another part of the store? Get down, find cover or concealment. Figure out safe direction and threat direction. Get family out safely or hunker down in a defensible spot. Call 911 with best info. Keep pistol in wrapper until/unless BG in sight and status (as BG) confirmed. That last one can be a doozy.

I hadn't thought about this until right now, but I expect different mannerisms from a defensive good guy vs. an offensive bad guy. The GG will have finger off of the trigger, crouched or otherwise using cover, searching for something other than a victim, probably have a two-handed hold for good gun control. The BG will not be using cover (possibly standing tall), likely have finger on the trigger, scanning not for threats but for victims (I don't know, it'll just look different when I see it), probably shooting one-handed.

This, I think, is the key to keep from shooting another GG--recognizing how a GG would act in such a scenario and how an active shooter (BG) would act. If we all developed this discriminating skill, we might eliminate a friendly fire incident here and there.

As I recall, in the shooting in Minnesota a few weeks ago, an undercover cop (looks much like a CHL) crossed paths with a uniformed officer and the two didn't shoot at each other. It wasn't specifically mentioned, but I suspect that the uniform recognized that the off-duty LEO was acting with mannerisms you might expect from a good guy--using cover, staying low, seeking the shooter (not victims), held a gun like he knew how to use it but with finger off of the trigger, etc.

[ScubaSigGuy]

I NEVER shop at WalMart. I am going to be making a HUGE exception when I make my Wally Walk. But now it will be be with this scenario in my head (not a bad thing).

I think that the assumption that all CHL holders are likely to stay low, use cover, and act like others trained and drilled in these confrontations could be a little off. This was not part of my CHL class nor is it part of any CHL classes that I have heard of. The fact is that unless the CHL holder is military trained, former LEO, or has attended a good practical training school they may appear more like the BG than we want to admit.

It's good to have an open discussion about this to mentally prepare but nothing beats training and drilling.

Now if I knew that the other CHL holders in the area were forum members I'd feel a lot better.

Anyway, just being DA.

[Ranger+P+]

Reality Check.

1. Loved ones Location-in my new training primer this is part of the essentials: Stay together if at all possible. If not--know location of loved one and ensure that is where they will be--this is key. In an emergency situation, establish a rally point--I always have liked entering and exiting thru less traveled doors like Automotive or Garden Center (If in Wally World) let your rally point be spots like this--traffic is usually less and in a panic scenario, it will be a little easier to exit quickly. You can also typically park closer to the door in these areas versus the front doors.
The exception to this rule is obviously the Nightmare scenario: if their path is blocked by the BG and they have to hunker down--I do not have room here to develop this, but in reality, you and your family will have to develop your own plan here, just let it include the basics: Avoidance, Deterrence, De-Escalation, First. Use of Force: Second.

Having your loved ones with you or being able to find them quickly if something does go down will lessen your chances of an armed confrontation, because you wont have to go running toward the gunfire looking for them. Remember: The Hero complex is for the Movies--you are not a LEO (for those who are obviously disregard). Your only concern in this situation is not to confront this idiot and stop him, but to get yourself and your loved ones out of the danger zone--FAST.

To answer the question about drawing your weapon when you hear shots, Follow all the above steps first. Me personally, I would not move thru the store with my gun drawn while proceeding to the exit--asking for trouble.
It violates so many principles on so many levels, you must remember, not all folks who carry guns are qualified to use them properly, even if they do have a license. Do you want to roll the dice on running thru the store to the exit with your gun drawn and running into a cowboy with either a Hero complex or Blood Lust?? Not Me. Remember: Avoidance, Deterrence, De-Escalation.

Secondly, After working with LE for many years as a contractor, I have learned that in sticky situations, most cops are operating on sketchy or plain bad intel at best from their dispatcher, and when it comes right down to it--if you run into them holding a gun, you are no longer a victim but a perp and in high adrenaline situations, that can be either deadly or complicated--both are bad.

[Will938]

You all laughed when they bought the official CHL badge.

In reality, I'd get my folks and work my way to the first exit I could find. If I ran across anyone armed I'd yell for them to identify themselves, if that weapon was pointed anywhere in my direction then good or bad I'm not going to wait for them to start shooting.