Frustrated With a Sale

[gregthehand]

So I recently started looking for an M1A and finally found a used one for a somewhat decent price over on the M14 Firing line. I posted that I'd take it and PMed the seller. In the meantime I sold a rifle that I liked but hadn't been shooting much on here to cover the funds so the wife wouldn't beat me up.

The guys is a truck driver and requested that I not send him payment until the 14th, which I did. I sent him USPS money order via priority mail with a signature confirmation. I also sent him a copy of my FFL's license on the same day. He comes back and says he can't use that license because my FFL blocks out his primary address and puts to ship it to a different one because nobody is there to recieve at the primary during the day. I told the seller I've used this FFL with AIM surplus and Buds Gun Shop before and had zero problems. I don't here any thing until tonight.

Tonight he sends me an email saying his lawyer said not to sell me the rifle and to back out of the deal due to the copy of the FFL I sent him. I try to appease the situation and send him the info for another dealer and an un-altered copy of an FFL. Furthermore I tell him he can pick any gun dealer he wants to send it to in Houston and I'll ok transferring it there. He says it just won't work and "he has to listen to his lawyer." I asked him to please contact his lawyer back and let him consider my offer. He seems pretty devout on not shipping me the rifle though.

He hasn't actually received the money yet, according to the tracking info. It's at the post office waiting to be picked up. But he can walk in Tuesday and get it if he wanted to. I spoke with him on the phone and he says he'll refuse the letter. The thing that's bugging me the most is he has already posted the rifle back up as our deal falling through and said whoever wants it can PM him. I'm mad because as far as I'm concerned I either need a rifle or my money orders in my hand before I will consider the deal to be off. At this point of he calls tomorrow and says that it's a no go I'm telling him he either needs to overnight me the letter I sent him back and I need it in my hands Wednesday or I'm calling the Postal Inspector. I'm leaving town on Wednesday night and won't be back until the following Tuesday. I don't want my money hanging around in a bunch of different post offices until then, and possibly going out for delivery and then having to come back. Too much margin for error.

I'm posting this just to vent and also as a little bit of warning. Be careful doing these deals as sometimes you can be left twisting in the wind like I am right now. Hopefully the guy comes through.

The thing I'm most ticked off about is that I sold a Robinson XCR, which I really liked, to fund this deal. If this guy pulls out, even if I get my money back it's anybody's guess if I'll be able to find another rifle in time before pending legislation makes it so I can't buy one at all. Then my only choice is to buy a grandfathered one and pay out the nose or just go without. Maybe an AWB won't pass and maybe it will. But I'd say there is a decent chance I could lose out on this deal.

Again, be careful who you deal with.

[jmra]

The only way I will do business like this is in a manner where I have a way to get my money back if the deal goes south. Either credit card or something like PayPal (not sure if they do the gun thing or not).

[03Lightningrocks]

Bad deal for sure. It sounds like the guy is a tard. You can find another rifle... Maybe better than that one. The thing is, everyone is flipping out right now and paying way to much. Give it a few months and the prices will drop and you will find ten of that same rifle for less money.

[03Lightningrocks]

The only way I will do business like this is in a manner where I have a way to get my money back if the deal goes south. Either credit card or something like PayPal (not sure if they do the gun thing or not).

PayPal has a no gun sales policy. People use it anyway, but if something goes wrong, Paypal would probably tell you tough luck.

[Salty1]

Your FFL is just plain wrong, by law a firearm can only be sent to the address that is listed on the FFL. Blacking out the address and putting something else in will cause the ATF to revoke his license in a heart beat if they are made aware of that.

It must be the location where the license is granted and that is the only place that the dealer is allowed to do business, including receiving. The only variance from that is Gun Shows which the ATF allows, and it must be an official gun show. What we do is to have items held at FedEx or UPS if for some reason we will not be around to receive the package.

Sounds like the seller spoke with his lawyer and they felt there was fraud involved and walked away. Sorry that you did not get it and I would suggest finding an FFL that you can trust and who plays by the rules, especially during these times where everything will be under a microscope by the anti's.........

[gregthehand]

Your FFL is just plain wrong, by law a firearm can only be sent to the address that is listed on the FFL. Blacking out the address and putting something else in will cause the ATF to revoke his license in a heart beat if they are made aware of that.

It must be the location where the license is granted and that is the only place that the dealer is allowed to do business, including receiving. The only variance from that is Gun Shows which the ATF allows, and it must be an official gun show. What we do is to have items held at FedEx or UPS if for some reason we will not be around to receive the package.

Sounds like the seller spoke with his lawyer and they felt there was fraud involved and walked away. Sorry that you did not get it and I would suggest finding an FFL that you can trust and who plays by the rules, especially during these times where everything will be under a microscope by the anti's.........

The issue may still be resolved. I've spoken with two other FFLs about the situation and think I've found one that the seller will work with.

I should point out that both of the other two, so three FFLs total, have all said what my original FFL was doing was perfectly legal. They said he just can't have me pick up the rifle anywhere but the primary address or at a gun show.

[03Lightningrocks]

I am no expert in these matters but I wanted to throw something out here. I have used an FFL that had a mailing(ship to) address different from his home address. I can't remember if he blacked anything out, but it did have two different addresses as best I can remember.

[Salty1]

I spoke to that ATF about this exact same scenerio as we wanted to have items dropped at a place where my wife worked. I was informed that the shipper must ship to the FFL location on the license and was told it was not negotiable to be in compliance. The wholesalers we work with would also not ship to any alternative address. What changes we made with the delivery company was another story as we just used the carriers drop points.... If others are able to do it more power to them, in these times I would not give the ATF any reason to revoke our license...

[gregthehand]

It doesn't matter anyway. The guy emailed me last night and gave me the info for an FFL in Houston saying he'd ship to that FFL. However, now all of a sudden he has to have all the info tomorrow before 7:30 am as he's leaving town at 1 pm. So I wrote the FFL an email, let him know I needed him to do a transfer and then followed up this morning with an email. I briefly described that the guy was waffling on me and I needed him to send over info ASAP so the guy would ship the rifle. So the FFL sent him the info right then and I didn't hear anything for a few hours. All of a sudden I get an email from him again saying that the deal is back off because I wrote him a horrible PM over on the M14 firing line, in regards to him posting the rifle back up for sale even though I had not been refunded.

Here it be:

I know you posted this before we spoke but I have to say I don't agree with the post that you made in your classified add. I have neither rifle nor money returned to me yet.

If you walked into a store and bought an auto part for your truck and paid for it with a credit card, and then the guy behind the counter said he couldn't get it for you, I'm betting you wouldn't leave that store without having at least a receipt for your records. That way you could make sure the charge was indeed returned to your card.

Right now I've got something equivalent to cash sitting in a post office in Missouri that you can walk in and collect. You say you'll return it if your lawyer says no tomorrow. I understand that. But all I've got is you telling me that right now. I hope you can appreciate how nervous this makes me considering you also said you'd be shipping me the rifle if I sent you payment and now I'm being told even though I have sent payment I shall receive no rifle. If you had said from the get go that you would not ship to that FFL no matter what I would have found a different one as I did tonight. You just said you weren't sure if it was ok, I checked with the FFL and you even verified his license was legit. That was on Monday and now it's almost a week later and I'm being thrown for this loop.

Again you can pick any FFL dealer in Houston. All I ask is that you consider my geographic location in Houston when picking one. I can't imagine any lawyer would have a problem with that. The original FFL is a high school buddy and he charges me $10 for transfers which is why I was trying to go with him. He runs his business out of his house which is the primary address. If someone shows up during the day with a shipment nobody is there to receive it which is why he has the alternate address.

Again I hope we can work this out as I have already taken a lot of leaps of faith here based on your communications and I'm feeling like I'm falling here.

Thanks,
Greg

So that's what I sent him and it just pushed him over the edge. So he blasts me an email saying that he's done I have offended him beyond belief with my reckless PM and that he's returning my money. I tell him it needs to be here Wednesday or I'm taking further action.

Then he goes on to his classified add on the forum and posts:

due to this deal getting out of hand because of buyer ffl dealer license being altered(blocked) and accusation of not wanting to sell this rifle. This rifle is withdrawn from sale. From now on anything I have to sell will be put up for auction. People that bought from me on CMP, Miltiary sporterizing forum,Gunbroker.com(aka spec.4, only have 1 F, due to being over sea and auction was on auto relist, but I did make it right) and here before knows I play by the rules and stick to my word. But when things don't go smooth, that is a red flag. I think most people here would agree with me that taking a altered license is a very risky in today America.

Greg White you will get your money plus the $15.00 back per USPS money order, the money that you put out for this deal. I do not like what you accuse me and what you wrote to me. But let me give you some advise, never accuse someone unless you have proof. You will irritated the seller/buyer off. After talking to my lawyer, my wife and after what you wrote me, this deal is dead. LIKE I SAID YOU WILL GET YOUR MONEY BACK PLUS THE FEES THAT YOU HAVE. You said you have $15.00 in it. This is your receipt.

Rob

So now all of a sudden it's going on gunbroker.com. My guess is he looked them up on there and saw the auction prices and realized he could get more than what I was offering. What's funny is I think he feels like he's in the right somehow yet everyone on the post is slamming him after his last post.

I'll probably just order an upper from Fulton Armory since I've got a VLTOR stock I'm putting the rifle in anyhow. Live and learn.

[flechero]

As I was reading your 1st post, I was thinking that he had an offer for way above your agreement and the rest was smoke and mirrors to justify his backing out. Sounds like a class a jerk and someone you will eventually be glad you didn't deal with. Someone will get a rifle that's not as described and probably way overpay for it.

[gregthehand]

I'd agree. That or he just realized that people are way over paying for them on Gunbroker and he contrived an excuse to get out of the sale. I guess he figured I'd just say ok and back away.

Anyway, like I said, I'm just waiting for Fulton Armory to open back up so I can order a barreled receiver upper. Then just find a trigger.

[gregthehand]

I got tired of waiting on Fulton Armory to open up. I found a member over on M14 Firing Line that is selling off his firearm collection.

He's got a Springfield Armory National Match that was made in 1985 (the "heyday" of M1As) that currently resides in an M21 stock. Comes with lots of extras to include 13 mags, a Blackhawk ground mat bag, Redfield spotting scope (Denver model), Sadlak mount, a Leupold Mark IV, and lots of reloading supplies.

I'm meeting him Monday south of Ft Worth on our way back from Angel Fire. A few pics are below.

[flechero]

Score!

And think, you could have had a used up, never cleaned, crooked shooting AR!!

[olafpfj]

She's a bute Clark!

[The Annoyed Man]

Buy it! BUY IT NOW!!!