Gun Range question...

BoneDigger · Post by **BoneDigger** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:35 pm

I think I know the answer to this, but want to check anyway. My local ranger here in Tyler has a sign posted that says,

"No loaded weapons beyond this point" on the front door. Since I have a CHL and it's not a 30.06 sign, I can carry inside correct?

Todd

nitrogen · Post by **nitrogen** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:40 pm

I'd ask.

Check out the recent thread about carrying at a Plano range, the Bullet Trap. I'm guessing they won't mind if you have a CHL, but it's always best to ask.

Venus Pax · Post by **Venus Pax** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:30 pm

I wouldn't ask. I wouldn't tell either.
It's concealed right?

propellerhead · Post by **propellerhead** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:22 pm

The two gun ranges I have asked told me if I come in there with a concealed weapon, I should keep it concealed. If I decide to shoot my carry weapon, I should clear it at the firing line.

TX Rancher · Post by **TX Rancher** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:34 pm

At a range/store in Austin, I was told the sign applied to CHL's as well as everybody else...all guns unloaded before you enter the store.

I was armed at the time, and didn't bother to tell them I was carrying, and I didn't bother to unload either. Just kept it concealed, left the store, and do my puchasing at another establishment now.

HankB · Post by **HankB** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:50 pm

Above all, a GUN SHOP ought to KNOW what the provisions of PC30.06. So I figure if they have a "No Loaded Guns" sign up, it's basically so Joe Deerhunter doesn't bring in a loaded rifle when he brings it in for some gunsmithing, or if a guy wants to sell a gun or trade it, he doesn't bring it in loaded.

If it's NOT a PC30.06 compliant sign, as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't exist.

And just in case I'm wrong about the intent of the business owner . . . I figure it's not in MY interest to bring it to his attention. He may change the sign . . . or worse, in response to my verbal inquiry, he may decide to give me verbal notice.

Sometimes, silence is golden.

frankie_the_yankee · Post by **frankie_the_yankee** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:22 pm

Venus Pax wrote:I wouldn't ask. I wouldn't tell either.
It's concealed right?

KBCraig · Post by **KBCraig** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:33 am

HankB wrote:Above all, a GUN SHOP ought to KNOW what the provisions of PC30.06.

*snork*... getting 01 FFL gun shops to understand FFL-FFL transfer regulations is tough enough. But in all fairness, they have to be pretty narrowly focused, because even the tiniest screw-up means putting their livelihood in jeopardy. Or even worse, criminal prosecution and/or civil suits.

Given the risks they face just doing their day-to-day business, I'm not surprised that dealers know very little about other legal matters like CHL, or the laws for self defense. Gun dealers are gun dealers; they're not experts in all aspects of firearms law. Buy your guns from them, but seek other sources for matters of law.

Kevin

packina45 · Post by **packina45** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:15 am

Local indoor range and both gun shops I frequent here in the Shreveport/Bossier City area have similar "no loaded firearms" signs. I've asked at all three places, and gotten the same answer from all three:
"Just keep it concealed."

frankie_the_yankee · Post by **frankie_the_yankee** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:23 am

KBCraig wrote: But in all fairness, they have to be pretty narrowly focused, because even the tiniest screw-up means putting their livelihood in jeopardy. Or even worse, criminal prosecution and/or civil suits.

Given the risks they face just doing their day-to-day business, I'm not surprised that dealers know very little about other legal matters like CHL, or the laws for self defense. Gun dealers are gun dealers; they're not experts in all aspects of firearms law.

What do you mean, "the risks they face just doing their day-to-day business"?

The only significant risk that I am aware of is that of getting robbed. In this regard they are no different than a jewelry store or a quickie mart. Maybe better, since trying to "do" a gun store is likely to be much riskier than a quickie mart, since it is certain that some of the potential victims will be armed.

Don't we say that people carrying guns are a positive benefit, and deter crime?

Don't we say that people with CHL's pose no danger to the community?

Don't we say that gun accidents have been declining for decades, and are at their lowest point since records have been kept?

Don't we argue vehemently against cooked up statistics put out by those who would take away our rights such as the myth that "a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to be used to injure or kill a family member, friend, or acquaintance than to kill an intruder"?

From the way some of these gun shops act, it looks like they don't really believe what we (and they) say about gun ownership, but rather believe what the gun grabbers say.

I will not shop in such stores.

It doesn't take a law degree for a store owner to exempt concealed handguns carried by CHL's from his store rule or range rule.

Any store owner who isn't familiar with the rudiments of TX CHL law is too stupid to sell me anything.

Any store owner who thinks that a concealed handgun is in any way likely to "go off" by itself should be in another line of work.

Bottom line: Someone who thinks that there is any significant danger inherent in concealed handguns carried by CHL holders in gun shops should also be opposed to CHL holders carrying guns anywhere else. After all, if you believe that there is a danger, why should the non gun carrying public be forced to share the sidewalk with people carrying these dangerous things? One of them might go off, and someone could get hurt, right?

BTW, I just thought of another risk of doing business, practically unique to gun shops. That is the risk that the gun grabbers will pass legislation that runs you out of business. And don't think it won't help them pass such legislation if they can say, "See. They SAY that guns are good. They SAY that gun's aren't dangerous. They SAY that it's good for people to carry guns. BUT THEY BAN IT IN THEIR OWN STORES."

To politically favor CHL and proceed to ban it in your own place is the height of hypocrisy. Such people are welcome to sell their guns, ammo, and supplies to someone else.

Liberty · Post by **Liberty** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:06 am

I figure if the place doesn't have a 30.06 I can carry concealed. If take the gun out from it cover garment or remove it from the holster. I no longer have the protection that a CHL gives me.

A storekeeper/range owner doesn't know me. My handgun is safe while its in my holster and concealed. The moment I remove the handgun and it isn't concealed. It is as dangerous or as safe as I am. Having a CHL is no guarantee that the gunowner is safe.

When my gun is concealed it is under my control, and will remain that way. No one has to know otherwise and as long as there is no 30.06 it is legal. When I display my gun It is the shops responsibility to ensure that he and his customers are safe, and mine to respect his rules.

I go to my gun range. I unholster my gun unload it , lock it open and recheck it that it is clear. Before I enter. I do this if I want to shoot this handgun at the range. If I am not to shoot my carry piece I don't decide to after I enter the range. It stays concealed. The rules don't seem so unreasonable to me.

GrillKing · Post by **GrillKing** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:10 am

What he said...

frankie_the_yankee · Post by **frankie_the_yankee** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:03 am

The point I am making is that rather than post a "no loaded guns in the store" sign, they could just as easily post a sign that bans loaded guns EXCEPT for concealed guns carried by CHL holders, and that such guns MUST remain concealed.

That shouldn't be too much of a mental leap for someone who runs a gun shop. And they would avoid irritating and/or driving away a significant portion of their clientel in the process.

Greybeard · Post by **Greybeard** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:06 am

Quote: "What do you mean, "the risks they face just doing their day-to-day business"?

The only significant risk that I am aware of is that of getting robbed. "

Just because you are not aware of the other guy's risks does not mean they do not exist. I suspect that if you spent some time in the shoes of the man with his name on the door (and on that FFL, insurance policy, lease agreement, etc.), you'd have a substantially different perspective.

Liberty · Post by **Liberty** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:11 am

frankie_the_yankee wrote:The point I am making is that rather than post a "no loaded guns in the store" sign, they could just as easily post a sign that bans loaded guns EXCEPT for concealed guns carried by CHL holders, and that such guns MUST remain concealed.

That shouldn't be too much of a mental leap for someone who runs a gun shop. And they would avoid irritating and/or driving away a significant portion of their clientel in the process.

If I see a "No Guns" sign in a convienience store or gun shop, my CHL instructor taught me that it just not apply. Maybe some instructors are not as clear as mine was, but I don't see any room for confusion.

If its not a bar, School, Secured part of Airport or Government, if you are not notified via 30.06. You can carry if the the gun is properly concealed.

If I run a gunshop I would want my customers and employees handling loaded guns in the storefront as seldom as possible. If one one understands the intent, the signs are not unreasonable.