Legal carry in a college classroom

[SC1903A3]

I work at a private University and since the VT shooting this question is being asked. Can a professor with a valid CHL and who has written authorization from the President of the University carry in the classroom and by default all academic building? I think I know the answer to the question but, want input from the knowledge bank.

[txinvestigator]

I work at a private University and since the VT shooting this question is being asked. Can a professor with a valid CHL and who has written authorization from the President of the University carry in the classroom and by default all academic building? I think I know the answer to the question but, want input from the knowledge bank.

Texas Penal Code
§46.03. Places weapons prohibited.

(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally,
knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal
knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):

(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational
institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by
a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger
transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether
the school or educational institution is public or private, unless
pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the
institution;

[stevie_d_64]

I'll go out on a limb...(yeah, I know...)

I predict that there will be many discussions about this issue, and that those institutions that somehow have this enlightenment will bend their policy to encapsulate those who have or obtain a CCW permit in those states that have the programs and make the adjustment (acceptance) that this actually might be a good idea...

And then of course there will be those facilities that harden their policies even more...

I bet we'll see adjustments made here and there to accomodate this "new" idea that people who are armed for lawful purposes are more healthier than the alternative...

But then again, I dream big I suppose...Hey, its not for me...I'm thinking this would be good for others...

[1TallTXn]

I too work on a small university campus (no I don't teach).

I'm not sure how my school would take it but I'd be interested in obtaining written permission.

As to how to go about it, I don't know.

SC1903A3, have you received this written permission?
If so how did you go about it that I may follow in your footsteps.

[SC1903A3]

Here's the whole story. I work on the administrative side of the University not the academic. My supervisor came to me and asked the question (he knows I have a CHL), if a professor has a valid CHL can he carry on campus and where? I told him that that a valid CHL holder can carry any where except in the premises of a building. The only exception would be if there was a school sponsored event outside then the professor would be prohibited from carrying in that area or areas directly adjacent to the event. He then asked about carrying in the classroom. I advised him that the professor would have to get permission from the University "President or VP. I told him that based on what PC 46.03 states which txinvestigator quoted. Thanks of reaffirming what I thought. That was what I was referencing when I said "I think I know" He then asked about keeping a rifle on campus. I told him it would be the same thing. I don't know if this is going to go any further. However one of the aggravating factors may be that last week we had a man with a gun on campus who was arrested for assault with a deadly weapon and violation of the gun free zone law. The guy was the brother of non student that was causing trouble. He pulled a gun and chambered a round. He was promptly tackled by other people in the area.

[1TallTXn]

He pulled a gun and chambered a round. He was promptly tackled by other people in the area.

Love to hear that! I was wondering what would happen if someone tired to pull something like VT here in TX.

I work IT myself so I guess we are in a similar boat.
I'm very tempted to ask the President about this and see where it goes. I know there's several staff/faculty on campus that are CHL holders and more that are at least not anti-gun, so maybe it would work.

[SC1903A3]

I'm sure that if something like this was to happen (CHL carry in the buildings) the school's insurance carrier would have a seizure.

[Venus Pax]

Good luck getting written permission. These types usually don't like to do anything that runs a risk of coming back on them.

[lrb111]

He pulled a gun and chambered a round. He was promptly tackled by other people in the area.

Love to hear that! I was wondering what would happen if someone tired to pull something like VT here in TX.

I work IT myself so I guess we are in a similar boat.
I'm very tempted to ask the President about this and see where it goes. I know there's several staff/faculty on campus that are CHL holders and more that are at least not anti-gun, so maybe it would work.

I've been thinking about the most tactful approach to this problem. The crux is that you want to volunteer your service, if called upon. The same as every other CHL holder in the state is obligated to do, if and when called upon to act on behalf of a law enforcement officer. This obligation
is becoming more readily apparent in those areas where our most defenseless gather.

In these times when "gun free zone" is coming to mean "soft target" it is likely that defensive minded Texans will lead the way as the nation takes homeland and personal defense as the most local of defense obligations.

Should the administration see there way to act as the law allows, either with permission or even as a request to make use of your CHL, you would me willing to comply.

Trusting that those with knowledge abide that having knowledge of your carrying remains discreet. By law it must remain "concealed" and not broadcast as public knowledge. >>>>>

If there is anything useful there, feel free..

[Idjut]

lrb111,

Asked in earnest: can you please elaborate on this obligation you speak of?

[lrb111]

lrb111,

Asked in earnest: can you please elaborate on this obligation you speak of?

I'll try. It's located in the CHL handbook starting at the bottom of page 53. Note those areas that say:
"a person acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction,"

Subch. E. LAW ENFORCEMENT

PC §9.51. ARREST AND SEARCH. (a) A peace officer, or a person
acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction, is justified in
using force against another when and to the degree the actor reason-
ably believes the force is immediately necessary to make or assist in
making an arrest or search, or to prevent or assist in preventing
escape after arrest, if:

(1) the actor reasonably believes the arrest r search is lawful or,
if the arrest or search is made under a warrant, he reasonably believes
the warrant is valid; and
(2) before using force, the actor manifests his purpose to arrest or
search and identifies himself as a peace officer or as one acting at a
peace officer's direction, unless he reasonably believes his purpose
and identity are already known by or cannot reasonably be made
known to the person to be arrested.
(b) A person other than a peace officer (or one acting at his direc-
tion) is justified in using force against another when and to the degree
the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to
make or assist in making a lawful arrest, or to prevent or assist in
preventing escape after lawful arrest if, before using force, the actor
manifests his purpose to and the reason for the arrest or reasonably
believes his purpose and the reason are already known by or cannot
reasonably be made known to the person to be arrested.
(c) A peace officer is justified in using deadly force against another
when and to the degree the peace officer reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary to make an arrest, or to prevent
escape after arrest, if the use of force would have been justified under
Subsection (a) and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the conduct for which arrest is
authorized included the use or attempted use of deadly force; or
(2) the actor reasonably believes there is a substantial risk that
the person to be arrested will cause death or serious bodily injury to
the actor or another if the arrest is delayed.
(d) A person other than a peace officer acting in a peace officer's
presence and at his direction is justified in using deadly force against
another when and to the degree the person reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary to make a lawful arrest, or to
prevent escape after a lawful arrest, if the use of force would have
been justified under Subsection (b) and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the felony or offense against the
public peace for which arrest is authorized included the use or at-
tempted use of deadly force; or
(2) the actor reasonably believes there is a substantial risk that
the person to be arrested will cause death or serious bodily injury to
another if the arrest is delayed.
(e) There is no duty to retreat before using deadly force justified by
Subsection (c) or (d).
(f) Nothing in this section relating to the actor's manifestation of
purpose or identity shall be construed as conflicting with any other law
relating to the issuance, service, and execution of an arrest or search
warrant either under the laws of this state or the United States.
(g) Deadly force may only be used under the circumstances
enumerated in Subsections (c) and (d).[/b]

[txinvestigator]

lrb111,

Asked in earnest: can you please elaborate on this obligation you speak of?

I'll try. It's located in the CHL handbook starting at the bottom of page 53. Note those areas that say:
"a person acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction,"

Subch. E. LAW ENFORCEMENT

PC §9.51. ARREST AND SEARCH. (a) A peace officer, or a person
acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction, is justified in
using force against another when and to the degree the actor reason-
ably believes the force is immediately necessary to make or assist in
making an arrest or search, or to prevent or assist in preventing
escape after arrest, if:

(1) the actor reasonably believes the arrest r search is lawful or,
if the arrest or search is made under a warrant, he reasonably believes
the warrant is valid; and
(2) before using force, the actor manifests his purpose to arrest or
search and identifies himself as a peace officer or as one acting at a
peace officer's direction, unless he reasonably believes his purpose
and identity are already known by or cannot reasonably be made
known to the person to be arrested.
(b) A person other than a peace officer (or one acting at his direc-
tion) is justified in using force against another when and to the degree
the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to
make or assist in making a lawful arrest, or to prevent or assist in
preventing escape after lawful arrest if, before using force, the actor
manifests his purpose to and the reason for the arrest or reasonably
believes his purpose and the reason are already known by or cannot
reasonably be made known to the person to be arrested.
(c) A peace officer is justified in using deadly force against another
when and to the degree the peace officer reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary to make an arrest, or to prevent
escape after arrest, if the use of force would have been justified under
Subsection (a) and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the conduct for which arrest is
authorized included the use or attempted use of deadly force; or
(2) the actor reasonably believes there is a substantial risk that
the person to be arrested will cause death or serious bodily injury to
the actor or another if the arrest is delayed.
(d) A person other than a peace officer acting in a peace officer's
presence and at his direction is justified in using deadly force against
another when and to the degree the person reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary to make a lawful arrest, or to
prevent escape after a lawful arrest, if the use of force would have
been justified under Subsection (b) and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the felony or offense against the
public peace for which arrest is authorized included the use or at-
tempted use of deadly force; or
(2) the actor reasonably believes there is a substantial risk that
the person to be arrested will cause death or serious bodily injury to
another if the arrest is delayed.
(e) There is no duty to retreat before using deadly force justified by
Subsection (c) or (d).
(f) Nothing in this section relating to the actor's manifestation of
purpose or identity shall be construed as conflicting with any other law
relating to the issuance, service, and execution of an arrest or search
warrant either under the laws of this state or the United States.
(g) Deadly force may only be used under the circumstances
enumerated in Subsections (c) and (d).[/b]

That is no obligation, that is a justification. That section gives you justification IF you are acting at a Peace Officers direction, or to assist a Peace Officer making an arrest.

Your only obligation to come to the assistance of others is found in the Code of Criminal Procedure, and it only applies to your assisting police officers. As a CHL holder, UNLESS you are directed to help a LEO, you have NO, ZERO, NADA legal obligation to assist or come to the aid of others.





Art. 2.14. May summon aid.† [Peace officer may request assistance.]

Whenever a peace officer meets with resistance in discharging
any duty imposed upon him by law, he shall summon a sufficient number
of citizens of his county to overcome the resistance; and all persons
summoned are bound to obey.

Art. 2.15. Person refusing to aid.

The peace officer who has summoned any person to assist him in
performing any duty shall report such person, if he refuse to obey, to
the proper district or county attorney, in order that he may be
prosecuted for the offense.

[lrb111]

Art. 2.14. May summon aid.† [Peace officer may request assistance.]

Whenever a peace officer meets with resistance in discharging
any duty imposed upon him by law, he shall summon a sufficient number
of citizens of his county to overcome the resistance; and all persons
summoned are bound to obey.

Art. 2.15. Person refusing to aid.

The peace officer who has summoned any person to assist him in
performing any duty shall report such person, if he refuse to obey, to
the proper district or county attorney, in order that he may be
prosecuted for the offense.

That was it, Thanks.. Recently the judge on Fox news used those laws to explain, in part, RKBA and militia in Texas. In his example he was using the concept of "raising a posse". Also, adding it was a considered a public duty, in the past, and that there was plenty of case law in support.

[1TallTXn]

There's no legal obligation for me to help anyone else, now as a decent human and a Christian, I would do what ever I could to help. Assuming that my loved ones are safe first.