Even Toy Guns Arn't Safe.

Gun, shooting and equipment discussions unrelated to CHL issues

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Wildscar
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Even Toy Guns Arn't Safe.

Post by Wildscar »

So much for the days of playing cops and robbers, cowboys and indians, and G.I. Joe :roll:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent ... f4459.html
Dallas isn't playing around with toy gun law 1:29 PM CDT

01:28 PM CDT on Monday, May 7, 2007
By DAVE LEVINTHAL / The Dallas Morning News
dlevinthal@dallasnews.com

You can still pack your Colt .45 or Smith & Wesson.

But the Dallas City Council is poised to restrict the sale and possession of replica firearms, as the body’s Public Safety Committee unanimously voted Monday afternoon to support an anti-toy gun ordinance.

The ordinance proposal is now scheduled to go before the full City Council on May 23.

As conceived, the proposed ordinance will prohibit:

- Displaying or brandishing a replica firearm in a public place

- Removing or obscuring the federally required orange tip on a toy gun

- Selling replica firearms from ice cream trucks

- Selling or possessing any replica firearm with a laser pointer attached

Violators could be punished with a Class C misdemeanor and a fine of up to $500, City Attorney Tom Perkins said.

But the proposed ordinance is notably weaker than a law some council members advocated last year.

The current ordinance proposal, for example, does not include two strict provisions council members had previously considered, most notably, prohibiting the sale or possession of any toy gun unless its exterior was colored white, bright orange, yellow, green, pink or purple, or if the exterior was transparent or translucent.

The proposal also does not include a provision prohibiting minors from possessing a toy gun that shoots any sort of projectile, regardless of whether it’s a foam ball or a BB.

In August, the council voted 7-1 to pursue banning all toy guns except those that fell under the exemption for color, transparency or translucency. But council members, some concerned about potential legal challenges to such a law, directed city staff in October to further study the issue.

As it is, the current ordinance proposal “will be a tool that allows up to enforce appropriate situation where people are brandishing these guns,� Police Chief David Kunkle said.

Under the ordinance proposal, people may continue to transport replica firearms in Dallas so long as they’re in a case, or otherwise hidden from public view, Mr. Perkins said.
Wildscar
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Paladin
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Post by Paladin »

Some strange stuff in there, but at least it sounds a whole lot better than the previous proposed ordinance.
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Post by BrassMonkey »

I wonder if we can carry them with a CHL? Concealed of course :-)
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Post by Smokewagon »

Why heck, back in the '50s I open carried these things. Sometimes one on each hip. :fire
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Mithras61
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Post by Mithras61 »

I can't express how sad for the children of Dallas this makes me, and how incredibly retarded it makes the Dallas City Coucil look to me.

I understand the issue they are trying to address, but firstly I don't believe the problem is as big as they obviously do and secondly I don't think this is a realistic approach to solving the problem.

R'tards (as my son calls them) waving toy guns around trying to make people think they're real is a good way for the r'tards to get dead. Other than that, people need to get their heads out of their ... and realize that even if they ban toy guns outright the fools looking for a "cheap" solution to make someone think they have a real gun are going to go outside Dallas to buy their toy.
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Post by seamusTX »

Mithras61 wrote:R'tards ... waving toy guns around trying to make people think they're real is a good way for the r'tards to get dead.
I don't approve of this law, but the problem is that when some goof uses a replica firearm to rob or whatever, and he gets shot, he or his "bereaved" want to sue the shooter.

BTW, actual retarded people rarely do things as stupid as some criminals.

- Jim
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Mithras61
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Post by Mithras61 »

seamusTX wrote:
Mithras61 wrote:R'tards ... waving toy guns around trying to make people think they're real is a good way for the r'tards to get dead.
I don't approve of this law, but the problem is that when some goof uses a replica firearm to rob or whatever, and he gets shot, he or his "bereaved" want to sue the shooter.

BTW, actual retarded people rarely do things as stupid as some criminals.

- Jim
If the problem is fools using toy guns that they intend to be perceived as deadly weapons, then there really isn't a need to ban the public display of toy guns. They should simply make it a defense to prosecution to use a toy gun in such a fashion just as if it were a real firearm. The intent of creating a threat of deadly force is the same in the case where a toy is used as where a knife or a club or a real firearm is used.

And I used r'tards instead of mentally impaired/handicapped because I recognize that actual folks with mental impairments rarely do that sort of thing.
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Post by seamusTX »

Mithras61 wrote:If the problem is fools using toy guns that they intend to be perceived as deadly weapons, then there really isn't a need to ban the public display of toy guns. They should simply make it a defense to prosecution to use a toy gun in such a fashion just as if it were a real firearm. The intent of creating a threat of deadly force is the same in the case where a toy is used as where a knife or a club or a real firearm is used.
That's pretty much how it is already. The police treat illegal use of replicas the same as deadly force, and it's legally OK. Civil liability is the main problem.

I don't think the Dallas ordinance is necessary, but big-city police chiefs and councils like to make stuff illegal.

- Jim
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Post by Mithras61 »

seamusTX wrote:That's pretty much how it is already. The police treat illegal use of replicas the same as deadly force, and it's legally OK. Civil liability is the main problem.

I don't think the Dallas ordinance is necessary, but big-city police chiefs and councils like to make stuff illegal.

- Jim
I know, and was saying that IF you have to make a law about it, simply codify the existing practices. I guess they want to feel like they are "doing something to address the problem" instead of just collecting their paychecks.
Last edited by Mithras61 on Tue May 08, 2007 1:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by stroo »

There was a situation a few years ago in Coppell where a LEO drew his gun and almost shot a 12 year old kid who was playing some kind of game with his friends with an airsoft pistol. Apparently some neighbor saw the kids, thought the guns were real and called the police. Fortunately the LEO was alert and while he initially thought the kid had a gun, he realized very quickly that it was simply and airsoft. I understand he was a little shook up at the thought that he had just about shot a kid with a toy gun.

Having said that, this ordinance is still ridiculous.
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Post by FrEaK_aCcIdEnT »

this just makes me want to have the tip on my xd duracoated in bright fluorescent orange to show how studip dallas is. Why dont they just pass a law making it so that if someone commits a crime using a toy gun and they are fatily shot due to thier stupidness. then they or thier "bereaved" are unable to seek any prosicution of the shooter. This way the issue would be resolved in court.


:roll: dallas...

who knows, maybe my one sided opinion is keeping me from seeing the other point of view.





edit:
stroo wrote:There was a situation a few years ago in Coppell where a LEO drew his gun and almost shot a 12 year old kid who was playing some kind of game with his friends with an airsoft pistol. Apparently some neighbor saw the kids, thought the guns were real and called the police. Fortunately the LEO was alert and while he initially thought the kid had a gun, he realized very quickly that it was simply and airsoft. I understand he was a little shook up at the thought that he had just about shot a kid with a toy gun.

Having said that, this ordinance is still ridiculous.

Are there any LEOs in the group that would like to give thier views on how alert they should be on the job as it is their job? I can understand the situation. but i presume most LEOs would approach the situation with "brains" before brawns. Evaluate the situation, then act. Thus "hopefully" avoiding an unnecessary loss of a childs life.
Last edited by FrEaK_aCcIdEnT on Tue May 08, 2007 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by seamusTX »

FrEaK_aCcIdEnT wrote:Why dont they just pass a law making it so that if someone commits a crime using a toy gun and they are fatily shot due to thier stupidness. then they or thier "bereaved" are unable to seek any prosicution of the shooter.
A city cannot pass that kind of law.

- Jim
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Post by FrEaK_aCcIdEnT »

i didnt know that, thank you for correcting me.


I still have this sudden urge to get some duracoating done. :lol:
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Well they did it.

Post by Wildscar »

So much for the days of cowboys and indians and cops and robbers. Wonder whats next.

http://cbs11tv.com/local/local_story_144100646.html

Toy Guns Banned In Public Areas Of Dallas
(CBS 11 News) DALLAS Dallas isn't playing around with toy guns anymore.

In a unanimous decision, the council decided to make it illegal to carry toy guns in the city limits.

Under the ordinance, you can't display a replica firearm in a public place. Nor can you remove the federally required orange tip on a toy gun.

The ordinance also prohibits the sale of toy guns with a laser pointer attached.

Violators would face a fine of up to $500.
Wildscar
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Post by HighVelocity »

This is very unfortunate. I can see the cities point but I don't agree with their answer to the problem of toy guns being used to commit real crimes.

The core problem is poor parenting, but, banning toy guns is a lot easier than telling people how to raise their kids so here we are. :roll:
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