Looking for some guidance with my first pistol/chl purchase

[jstrong]

Hey yall,
I'm currently 20 years old but have been researching on and off for a while now what i want to do when i turn 21 as far as pistols go. I plan to take the classes to get my chl as soon as i can, but I'm having some troubles trying to figure out what kind of pistol I want to get after i complete those. I've been raised on revolvers due to their durability, reliability, and easy maintenance; all my dad and the rest of my family own are revolvers. Because of this, obviously I am leaning towards a revolver for my first pistol, I was thinking either a .38 or a .357 (more-so the .357 since I could also shoot a .38 out of it). However, I used to own a Springfield Armory XD 4" Service .45 and I loved the gun. I thought it shot great, had a nice, smooth slide, was a pretty decent size, and I never had any misfires or jams with it; but my dad swears by revolvers because of my previously stated reasons.I guess what I am trying to figure out is a couple of things: whether my first concealed carry gun should be a revolver or a semi-auto, and then from there whether i should go with just a .38 vs a .357, or a 9mm, .40, or .45 acp.
My thoughts for the revolvers were I buy a .357 such as the S&W Model 627 because it has a short enough barrel to make it easy to carry and point-shoot as well as being able to shoot a .38 cartridge, and I have never seen any real problems with Smith & Wesson guns.
OR
If I go with a semi-auto I am having troubles deciding on the right size caliber for me. I like 9mm because the ammo is cheap and extremely easy to find and I feel extremely comfortable shooting a 9mm because of the lack of kick and 9mm are never too heavy, however I also like the reassurance of shooting a .45, especially when it could be for self defense, and i still have little to no problem with kick.
I talked to a guy at my local gun store about this "issue" and he recommended the .40 because its sort of a best of the both worlds middle ground, but i have yet to see enough evidence to the superiority of the .40 to sway my decision that way. (I actually don't think he really knew the difference between a .40 and a .45 to be honest)
I have looked at a few different makers of these semi autos i would be interested in, such as glock, kimber, and smith & wesson (I am a little partial to S&W since my buddy works with them) but I have not been able to narrow anything down yet since I'm still undecided on what caliber i plan to shoot.
Any advice or assistance is greatly appreciated, and if i have any misconceptions please let me know. I'm really looking for some advice from more experienced shooters than myself, but I am open to any suggestions yall can throw at me.
Thanks for the help in advance,
John

[Beiruty]

1) 9mm with hollow points like Gold dots 124gr +P is very good choice, with 9mm you have more rds on you and shot placement and follow ups are what matters.
2) For CC, the size does matter and the smaller and lighter the better. Think about sub compact or compact with double stack magazines.
3) If you prefer S&W, then check this version: http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/ ... rrorView_Y" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jmra]

Welcome to the forum. The best advice I can give you is shoot as many different guns as you can get your hands on. Check out the rentals at gun ranges and find something that fits you.
If you find something you like to shoot, make sure it is something you can carry on your body 12 hrs at a time. Some people can manage this with a cannon others have problems doing it with a mouse gun. A lot of it depends on body type and quality of holster.
I'm not sure when 9mm got cheap and easy to find again but it is a good choice. Happy hunting and hope you find a keeper the first time around.

[troglodyte]

A revolver or a semi-auto will certainly do the job. A 9mm is not a bad choice.

Regarding recoil. I have found a lot of it depends maybe more on the mass of the gun and less on the caliber. Lighter guns=more recoil. Now the trade-off is it's not a lot of fun to carry a heavy gun all day. This means you have to find a lighter gun with recoil you can live with in a caliber that works for you. I have a scoped .44 mag Super Blackhawk that I can shoot full-house rounds out of all day but I wouldn't want to carry it all day. On the other hand I have a small Diamondback .380 that is great to carry but I don't like to shoot it for extended practice sessions. This deals with the mass of the gun.

You'll also find that different guns of the same caliber have different perceived (and real) recoil. My wife used to own a Taurus 9mm semi-auto. The recoil felt sharper and more snappy than a similarly sized Springfield XD subcompact. Grip angle, grip size, function, bore alignment, and a host of other things go into how you perceive recoil.

I find the recoil of a 9mm to be a non-issue. The .40 is snappy to me and the .45 is like a firm shove. But, again, this is a combination of a lot of variables. The best thing to do is try out as many as you can get your hands on. Start asking around. You can probably find someone that is willing to go out to the range and let you try out their gun. It's nice to bring your own ammo.

My two-cents on revolvers vs. semi-autos in one word. Capacity. While I do not recommend Spray and Pray, there seems to be more and more validity to having as many rounds on board as possible. The apparent increase in multiple attackers makes it seem more prudent to carry more than 6 or 7 rounds. A real basic and generic scenario. Two attackers come at you. Let's say you are able to put two rounds in each one. Great! Two rounds left. But let's say we're real honest about the dynamics of a gun fight and you miss each one once. Now you're out and have to reload. Oh, but those two rounds you perforated the crackhead bad guys with weren't enough to stop them so one or both of them are still coming at you. With a semi auto carrying 10+ rounds you have a little more wiggle room. Now, if you can hit a running jack rabbit in the eye with a .22 during a sand storm then round count becomes a moot issue. For the rest of us it is something we have to figure out where we are comfortable.

Now all scenarios breakdown but you can start playing out your own. I love carrying and shooting my .45 but it only holds 7+1 (and carry a reload). Enough? Who's to say. If I'm just out by myself or maybe with the wife in areas not likely to be "dangerous" (whatever that means) I may carry my .45. If I'm going into town where I may be a the wrong place at the wrong time then I tend to carry the 9mm (13+1) plus at least one reload (16 rounds). Overkill? Maybe but I have never heard anyone complain that they carried too much ammo to a gunfight.

What is the limit? What becomes overkill? That's a personal choice. From a long time of being on this forum I've gravitated towards a higher capacity semi-auto with at least one reload. I have no problems with revolvers except for the round count. Yes you can always reload but that takes time and practice (which everyone should do) but if I already have my first reload in my gun then I have saved a precious amount of time and possible fumbling of the reload.

If I was to recommend a firearm to anyone. One that I believe will do it's job if you will do your part, it would be a Glock or Springfield XD in 9mm. While there are a host of other guns out there I like, that I'd like to have, and that work perfectly well, I don't think I would anyone would be at a disadvantage with a 9mm Glock or XD. Full-size, compact, or sub-compact? Your choice, although I'd lean towards the compact or sub-compact.

Good luck on your search and decision. There are a lot of things to think about and carrying a handgun is full of tradeoffs. In reality you'll probably end up with several carry guns and swap them out for specific occasions. That said, you'll also end up with one that you carry most of the time and like to practice with and that's the gun for you.

And welcome to the forum. Pull up a chair and stay awhile.

[RoyGBiv]

I've had a CHL for nearly 18 years (yes, I'm old , and I started in NC). I currently carry a .40 semi-auto.
If I was starting from scratch today I would choose a good quality 9mm semi-auto. Glock is the low priced reliability leader, I like H&K if you can manage the price tag, there are others in between. 9mm ammo has improved to the point that stopping power is excellent, 9mm allows you carry a few more rounds in the same space, recoil is less, practice ammo is cheaper, etc., etc. 9mm SA is, IMO, the best overall choice.

A commander-size .45 1911 is pretty sexy though. Do some reading here before you buy a Kimber. Great looking guns (some of the best styling in the business, IMO), but there are enough reports of inconsistent reliability to keep me away from them as a primary CC choice. YMMV.

Go to a range that offers a good selection of handguns, spend a few hours shooting a variety of them and see what feels best to you. Don't get too hung up on finding your "forever" gun. Get something known for quality and reliability, learn how to shoot it well. Your preferences are certain to evolve with experience and you're likely to want something different as you learn first-hand what your own preferences are.

Welcome to the forum. Great first post.!

[OldCannon]

As an FFL, I have had the chance to use a LOT of different firearms. For me, my carry weapon is an M&P Shield in 9mm, with an extra magazine in my back pocket. I'm waiting for my new Crossbreed holster to come in, at which time I will shift from 3-4 o'clock carry to appendix carry.

The earlier advice to "shoot different guns" is good, but it's VERY difficult to find the small CC-style guns available at rental ranges (you profile doesn't say where you're from, so I can't offer suggestions). It's important to learn what works for you, because some people find it too disturbing if their pinky finger rides under the pistol frame (i.e. - me with a Glock 26). Go with what feels good as far as a fit (in your hands) and what can be concealed well. Remember that heavy/bulky pistols will feel even heavier when you're carrying in the hot Texas summers, so keep that tradeoff in mind as well.

If you find folks on here that are local, you might be able to visit with them at a range and shoot their CC pistol. If you're near Pflugerville, I'd be glad to let you shoot my Shield.

Hope all this helps!

[RoyGBiv]

As an FFL, I have had the chance to use a LOT of different firearms. For me, my carry weapon is an M&P Shield in 9mm, with an extra magazine in my back pocket. I'm waiting for my new Crossbreed holster to come in, at which time I will shift from 3-4 o'clock carry to appendix carry.

FWIW, I found the supertuck very "poke-me" in the appendix position. Not sure if that's the one you're waiting on?

If you find the same, there are lots of good suggestions from folks in the Appendix threads here: http://pistol-forum.com/forumdisplay.ph ... d-EDC-Gear" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


/OT

[WildBill]

Welcome to the forum. The best advice I can give you is shoot as many different guns as you can get your hands on. Check out the rentals at gun ranges and find something that fits you.
If you find something you like to shoot, make sure it is something you can carry on your body 12 hrs at a time. Some people can manage this with a cannon others have problems doing it with a mouse gun. A lot of it depends on body type and quality of holster.
I'm not sure when 9mm got cheap and easy to find again but it is a good choice. Happy hunting and hope you find a keeper the first time around.

A good self defense gun is one that you will carry and can shoot accurately. You won't know which one you can shoot well unless you actually shoot it.

When I say "one", eventually it will probably be more than one that you shoot well and like to carry.

[jbarn]

Welcome to the forum. The best advice I can give you is shoot as many different guns as you can get your hands on. Check out the rentals at gun ranges and find something that fits you.
If you find something you like to shoot, make sure it is something you can carry on your body 12 hrs at a time. Some people can manage this with a cannon others have problems doing it with a mouse gun. A lot of it depends on body type and quality of holster.
I'm not sure when 9mm got cheap and easy to find again but it is a good choice. Happy hunting and hope you find a keeper the first time around.

A good self defense gun is one that you will carry and can shoot accurately. You won't know which one you can shoot well unless you actually shoot it.

I agree. As an instructor I like to observe folks shoot before I recommend a firearm

I carry semi autos, but I was raised on revolvers and would not feel at a disadvantage with one. Speed loaders are not as easy to carry as magazines, I find. However, for civilians I do not worry about capacity as much as accuracy and adequate penetration.

[TomsTXCHL]

A good self defense gun is one that you will carry and can shoot accurately.

IMO the bolded is the #1 consideration. One that you are comfortable carrying and...

...that you can conceal effectively. I've been reading some of the posts here about changing 30.06, and penalties for carrying-into somewhere illegally, and whether carry-in to a forbidden location happens either accidentally or deliberately there will be no problems if the only one who knows is You.

[The Annoyed Man]

Revolvers vs Semiautos:

• I own both, but I own more semiautos than I own revolvers, and only one of the revolvers I own is in my carry rotation. (The other two are sufficiently powerful, but too heavy....more on this below....) That one is a S&W M&P340 in .357 magnum. Although I have a holster for it, I almost always pocket carry it whenever I do carry it. It is also usually at the bottom of my carry list for the simple fact that I have another pocket gun, a 9mm Kahr PM9, which doesn't weigh much more, has a larger capacity (1 round more), and a faster reload (7 round magazine to the revolver's 5 round speedloader). So although I carry the speedloader when I carry the revolver, I am not usually thinking about the possibility of needing to reload, and it is principally my "walk out to the mailbox" or "mow the lawn" gun.
  
  The semiautos I own, which are to some degree or other part of my "carry rotation", range in size from the dinky little PM9 mentioned above, to a subcompact XDS-45 (my daily favorite), a XDM Compact 45 3.8", an M&P45 Full sized, and a 5" Springfield Loaded 1911. Each is different from the others in terms of handling characteristics, but they all have one thing in common.....I am familiar with them and I don't find it difficult or confusing to switch from one to the other.
  
  Whether the revolver or semiauto platform is better than the other.....there is no "better", assuming that your array of choices all have a reputation for reliability and that you are able to handle them safely and shoot them well. In that regard, it is largely a matter of personal preference. In MY opinion (worth exactly what it cost, which is about the same as anybody else's ), the only revolvers worth carrying all the time are those with some kind of alloy/scandium/polymer frame. Even a fairly light gun weighs a lot more at the end of the day than it did when you first strapped it on that morning, so unless you are a bit of a masochist, avoid steel-framed revolvers, no matter how compact they are. But, this leads up to the next consideration......

Caliber:

• My personal recommendation is this: almost any caliber greater than .380 ACP is more than sufficient, and I always try to steer my newbie friends away from that particular caliber. I have what I believe are sound reasons for that, but I want to stress that the gun on your person is better than the gun you left at home because it was too big/heavy. (More on this under "clothing" below.) I also want to stress that there are a significant number of people on this forum who disagree about .380 and feel perfectly comfortable with it......and their opinion is worth the same as mine......at least it is to them.
  
  But without beating up on .380 any further, I would say that the mainstream self-defense calibers are exactly that—mainstream— because they have proven themselves over and over again under actual gunfight conditions. As I noted in my first two paragraphs above (you'll soon find that I'm a long-winded sucker, and the number of paragraphs I write in any of my posts is almost a joke around here), my personal carry rotation includes .357 magnum, 9mm, and .45 ACP. It has, in the past, included .380, .38 Special, and .40 S&W. All of these, except the .380 (in my opinion), are fine self-defense calibers. In the end, it boils down to two things:
• "horsepower to weight ratio", meaning, can that caliber be comfortably managed in the platform it's being carried in? A perfect example of this is my .357 magnum. It only weighs 13 oz, and at such a light weight, it borders on painful to shoot it. (I submit for your entertainment, the following: viewtopic.php?p=490416#p490416" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) Since recoil is as much about perception as it is about the actual physics, some people would not want to shoot this gun. If you're afraid to shoot it, you either won't carry it, or, you may hesitate to shoot when that hesitation may cost you. That .357 is about at the ragged edge of what I will personally carry in terms of shootability.
• "stopping power", meaning, how many times am I going to have to shoot this guy to make him stop? One of the things that will be impressed upon you when you take your CHL class is that we "shoot to stop the threat". We do NOT "shoot to kill the threat". Back in my wayward youth, I spent about 5 years working in the ER of a trauma center hospital; and in that time, I saw a lot of people who died from gunshot wounds. The vast majority of them had been killed with a .22.........but with only a couple of exceptions (hits to the descending aorta), that .22 did not stop them right away. Even the mighty .44 magnum may not stop an attacker with the first hit. BUT..... as a general thing, it will take a lot more .22 hits than .45 ACP hits to make an assailant reconsider his course of action. As the late great Colonel Jeff Cooper famously said:

  “… carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it you may shoot it. If you shoot it you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you.”

• My personal preferences in semiauto pistols is for .45 ACP and 9mm. I have owned a .40 S&W pistol. I liked the pistol, but not the caliber. That was strictly a personal preference thing, and .40 S&W is a very capable choice. I personally did not like it because I found the recoil characteristics more difficult to shoot well than the .45 ACP; it seems to combine the higher-velocity slide movement of the lighter 9mm with the heavier bullet induced recoil of the .45, I had a harder time shooting it well. Others aren't bothered by it at all.

Capacity:

• Again quoting the late Colonel Jeff Cooper:

  "It has never been clear to me why increased magazine capacity in a defensive pistol is particularly choice. The bigger the magazine the bigger the gun, and the bigger the gun the harder it is to get hold of for people with small hands. And what, pray, does one need all those rounds for? How many lethal antagonists do you think you are going to be able to handle? Once when Bruce Nelson was asked by a suspect if the thirteen-round magazine in the P35 was not a big advantage, Bruce’s answer was, “Well, yes, if you plan to miss a lot.” The highest score I know of at this time achieved by one man against a group of armed adversaries was recorded in (of all places) the Ivory Coast! There, some years ago, a graduate student of mine laid out five goblins, with four dead and one totaled for the hospital. Of course there is the episode of Alvin York and his eight, but there is some dispute about that tale. (If you read it over very carefully you will see what I mean.) Be that as it may, I see no real need for a double column magazine. It is all the rage, of course, and like dual air bags, it is a popular current sales gimmick."

  This, from a man who had probably been in more gunfights with pistols than any of us will ever see in 10 lifetimes.
  
  I own double stack pistols, and occasionally carry them, but 95% or more of the time, I'll be carrying a single stack pistol for the simple reason that it conceals more readily and carries more comfortably. I have multiple magazines for each of my pistols, but I generally only carry 1 extra magazine. On rare occasion, I'll carry two; but I am not one of these guys who has to have 4 spare mags, pepper spray, handcuffs, an ASP baton, a kubotan, body armor, and an official pair of Oakley sunglasses. On the other hand, I do carry semiautos, even single stack semiautos, because they generally have a higher round capacity than a pocket revolver. But the fact of the matter is that, if I was expecting trouble, I'd bring a rifle and a dozen 30 round magazines. Better yet, if I was expecting trouble, I wouldn't be there! I don't carry my pistol to engage in running gun battles. I carry it to defend myself and those I love. If I need more rounds than are in the gun, then I have urgent business elsewhere and must hasten there forthwith......and much of that can be obviated simply by exercising wisdom in personal decision-making. Nothing good ever happens after 10 p.m. in the parking lot of your local roadhouse. The main reason I carry a spare magazine at all is in case of a malfunction.........and by the way, revolvers can malfunction too....they're just less likely to.

Clothing:

• Unless you are simply vain, dress around the gun. Making a wise choice in which gun to carry can give you more clothing options (one of the reasons I prefer carrying a single stack pistol), but don't be one of those people who elects to carry a Black Widow .22 because you can't bear the thought of not having your jeggings airbrushed on.

Have I written enough yet?

[gljjt]

I agree with all! Shoot as much as you can. As many different guns as you can. Find what fits (9mm and above). Determine what also works for you mentally, i.e., capacity, extra magazines, etc. Make a choice. Get a good holster and belt.

You will eventually end up with different holsters as you figure out what really works for you. Also you will likely find you use different holsters for different occasions, shorts/T-shirt, suit, etc.

You will likely also end up with more than one carry piece as well over the years. For the same reason as holsters, different occasions are suited to different firearms. Unlike TAM, I do occasionally carry a .380. Ideal carry weapon? No. Better than nothing? Yes. Rarely carry it but it works for me in a situation where I otherwise wouldn't be able to carry. Others may disagree with the .380 but do what is right for you. I do strongly suggest that you initially find a primary, semi-auto carry piece, 9mm or higher that fits you and will work for you all the time if needed. Specialty carry pieces can come in later years as you determine how you can improve your carry needs.

[Texas_Blaze]

Living in Houston area, my first carry was a G17. I switched to Ruger SRC9 10+1. Given that more and more often Pooky shows up w/ 3 or 4 other thug friends, I have moved to the 17 rd mag.

My wife used to carry a 38 revolver. Now she carries a shield 9.

my opinion about 9,40,45 is blah blah blah. I wouldn't want to be shot w/ any.

One way to try out new guns is to buy one every year. That's what I have done for the past few years. It is fun. so many flavors

[jstrong]

Wow, i was not expecting so many replies so quickly. Thanks everybody for all the help, I can already tell I'm going to like this forum. I'm heading to my local range pretty soon so I'll keep all of yall's advice in my mind and try to shoot a bunch of different pistols and see what suits me.
Again, thanks. Yall have all been very helpful

[johncanfield]

..I talked to a guy at my local gun store about this "issue" and he recommended the .40 because its sort of a best of the both worlds middle ground, but i have yet to see enough evidence to the superiority of the .40 to sway my decision that way...

We have semi-autos in .380, 9mm, and .40. Discussing the merits and disadvantages of different calibers always makes for spirited discussion on the forums. I will point out one advantage I discovered with .40 caliber - during the great ammo "shortage" of a few months or a year ago, 9mm FMJ was very difficult to find due to its popularity, .40 caliber wasn't in abundant supply but it was much easier to find.

Go to a range that rents handguns and try several.