This is our fourth summer in NW Montana and today in the Polson, MT SUBWAY, we saw a guy with an OC 1911. This is the third such OC sighting in four summers in this Gold Star OC state! Mrs. Oldgringo asked if our licenses would allow that. I told her we/he didn't need a license for OC in Montana but we/he did need a license for CC. She said, "okay".
As I've opined several times, OC ain't no big deal nor is it apparently widely practiced in urban areas where it's legal; however, it is nice to know that the barrel of my 1911 peeking out from under my shirt is not cause for alarm as I munch on my tuna fish sandwich and read today's "THE MISSOULIAN".
Oldgringo wrote:As I've opined several times, OC ain't no big deal nor is it apparently widely practiced in urban areas where it's legal; however, it is nice to know that the barrel of my 1911 peeking out from under my shirt is not cause for alarm as I munch on my tuna fish sandwich and read today's "THE MISSOULIAN".
If it was cause for alarm, would you still do it? I mean, it IS legal and it IS your right to do so but, if you knew you were upsetting people who didn't have your comfort level with guns, would you still do it? Would you consider it rude? I was raised that good manners was the art of not making people uncomfortable around you, be it not chewing with your mouth open, talking loudly in the library, talking on the phone in a movie theatre, or farting in the checkout line.
I'm quite comfortable with guns. What I'm not comfortable with are people who behave irresponsibly with guns. At gun shops, gun ranges, gun shows and the like, I feel no discomfort as these are appropriate settings for the display of weaponry. But, when I see a guy who thinks it's necessary to demonstrate his machismo by humping an AK into a Subway or department store, I'm uncomfortable for a couple of reasons. One, that sort of behavior doesn't give me confidence in his (or her) cognitive skills and two, I'm out-gunned by this idiot.
Oldgringo wrote:As I've opined several times, OC ain't no big deal nor is it apparently widely practiced in urban areas where it's legal; however, it is nice to know that the barrel of my 1911 peeking out from under my shirt is not cause for alarm as I munch on my tuna fish sandwich and read today's "THE MISSOULIAN".
If it was cause for alarm, would you still do it? I mean, it IS legal and it IS your right to do so but, if you knew you were upsetting people who didn't have your comfort level with guns, would you still do it? Would you consider it rude? I was raised that good manners was the art of not making people uncomfortable around you, be it not chewing with your mouth open, talking loudly in the library, talking on the phone in a movie theatre, or farting in the checkout line.
I'm quite comfortable with guns. What I'm not comfortable with are people who behave irresponsibly with guns. At gun shops, gun ranges, gun shows and the like, I feel no discomfort as these are appropriate settings for the display of weaponry. But, when I see a guy who thinks it's necessary to demonstrate his machismo by humping an AK into a Subway or department store, I'm uncomfortable for a couple of reasons. One, that sort of behavior doesn't give me confidence in his (or her) cognitive skills and two, I'm out-gunned by this idiot.
Oldgringo wrote:As I've opined several times, OC ain't no big deal nor is it apparently widely practiced in urban areas where it's legal; however, it is nice to know that the barrel of my 1911 peeking out from under my shirt is not cause for alarm as I munch on my tuna fish sandwich and read today's "THE MISSOULIAN".
If it was cause for alarm, would you still do it? I mean, it IS legal and it IS your right to do so but, if you knew you were upsetting people who didn't have your comfort level with guns, would you still do it? Would you consider it rude? I was raised that good manners was the art of not making people uncomfortable around you, be it not chewing with your mouth open, talking loudly in the library, talking on the phone in a movie theatre, or farting in the checkout line.
I'm quite comfortable with guns. What I'm not comfortable with are people who behave irresponsibly with guns. At gun shops, gun ranges, gun shows and the like, I feel no discomfort as these are appropriate settings for the display of weaponry. But, when I see a guy who thinks it's necessary to demonstrate his machismo by humping an AK into a Subway or department store, I'm uncomfortable for a couple of reasons. One, that sort of behavior doesn't give me confidence in his (or her) cognitive skills and two, I'm out-gunned by this idiot.
The point I apparently failed to make is that even where OC is legal, it doesn't appear to be widely practiced.
I've seen it in Montana also.. Lots of places. Doesn't seem to bother anyone.
I've never seen it in Michigan, although I'm not there during hunting season. And I've read about OC people being stopped and questioned in MI, regardless of legal or not.
It seems to be about what people are "used" to seeing...
it doesn't cause alarm if it's done properly, if it's a pistol in a holster that is left alone, what's the big deal? if it's legal and honestly, most people think "oh, he/she is a LEO". (background, I lived in CO where it's legal, I saw it done frequently, No Big Deal)
people need to stop getting their panties in a wad every time they see a gun (yes, I went there, I guess I can since I'm a female and all)
~Tracy
Gun control is what you talk about when you don't want to talk about the truth ~ Colion Noir
Open carry of handguns simply doesn't bother me. Open carry of long guns in an appropriate context doesn't bother me. Open carrying an M1A in a Sage stock into a Target Superstore is not an appropriate context.
Although handguns are almost certainly used in crimes more than long guns, the general perception I think (and probably the correct one) is that handguns are for personal defense, and long guns are more of an offensive weapon. I make no value judgement at all. I own both kinds. But I AM reminded of the old story about a Texas Ranger who shows up at a social function in uniform, with a sidearm strapped on. A matron approaches him disapprovingly and says "why do you have a pistol? Are you expecting trouble?" And he replies, "No ma'm, if I was expecting trouble I would have brought a rifle".
And THAT is exactly what these long gun OC protestors are overlooking...... no, not "overlooking" so much as refusing to admit the obvious because it is inconvenient to their under-brained massive egos.... that it's bad enough that they walk into a Target with a long gun slung over their shoulder, but that almost universally they are doing so with guns that LOOK like a battle rifle to the uninitiated.....and that they are expecting trouble.
And they KNOW it. They could carry Ruger 10/22s, or Marlin 60s, or Over and Under Browning Citori, or Remington 700 bolt rifles. But they don't. They are almost universally carrying AR15s, AK47s, M1As, SKSs, and FALs......or if it is a shotgun, they're carrying a clearly combat designed black shotgun with an extended magazine tube. It is really hard to avoid the obvious conclusion that they are compensating for a lack of adequacy in.....ahem.....other areas....
I've got no problem with those kinds of guns. I own a few of them myself. I've got no problem with "tacticool". Some of my stuff is "tacticool". But I do have a brain, and I DO understand that, not only are some people not going to share my particular tastes in firearms, they are going to be downright scared to death of guns that LOOK like they were made for the jungles of Vietnam, the deserts of Iraq, and the mountains of Afghanistan. It. Does. Not. Matter. if these are the civilian versions of those weapons......most civilians don't know that, and those guns scare the pee out of them.
Anybody who insists in the face of common sense that they just don't see that is just squeezing their eyes shut and refusing to see reality.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”
SewTexas wrote:it doesn't cause alarm if it's done properly, if it's a pistol in a holster that is left alone, what's the big deal? if it's legal and honestly, most people think "oh, he/she is a LEO". (background, I lived in CO where it's legal, I saw it done frequently, No Big Deal)
people need to stop getting their panties in a wad every time they see a gun (yes, I went there, I guess I can since I'm a female and all)
The point I was trying to make was that while this is obviously "No Big Deal" to you, it might be a "Very Big Deal" to others without your level of sophistication. And as such, maybe it wouldn't hurt to be a little considerate of others. Contrary to your opinion, I think we need to increase the number of bunches in our collective panties with regard to selfish and rude behavior. One of the reasons our society has become so coarse and cantankerous is because of our "It's all about me" mentality. If people were a little more considerate, I probably wouldn't feel the need to carry concealed.
About two years ago, while about to start my quiet motorcycle outside an HEB, a little boy pulled his hand free from his mother and clapped his hands over his ears. She looked at me and said that he's scared of loud motorcycles. I spent a few minutes talking to the little boy, assuring him that my bike wasn't that loud and he and his mother stepped a few feet away while I started it. Once the starter disengaged, it was pretty quiet and I talked to him some more and then left. This subject wouldn't have even come up if some a**hat, proud of his loud and legal pipes hadn't scared the little boy. This same thing is happening all over the country with people like me trying to explain that people like you aren't bad people because you like to carry guns overtly. Paraphrasing the US general about the war in the Middle East, "We're making enemies faster than we can convince them."
The Annoyed Man wrote:Open carry of handguns simply doesn't bother me. Open carry of long guns in an appropriate context doesn't bother me. Open carrying an M1A in a Sage stock into a Target Superstore is not an appropriate context.
Although handguns are almost certainly used in crimes more than long guns, the general perception I think (and probably the correct one) is that handguns are for personal defense, and long guns are more of an offensive weapon. I make no value judgement at all. I own both kinds. But I AM reminded of the old story about a Texas Ranger who shows up at a social function in uniform, with a sidearm strapped on. A matron approaches him disapprovingly and says "why do you have a pistol? Are you expecting trouble?" And he replies, "No ma'm, if I was expecting trouble I would have brought a rifle".
And THAT is exactly what these long gun OC protestors are overlooking...... no, not "overlooking" so much as refusing to admit the obvious because it is inconvenient to their under-brained massive egos.... that it's bad enough that they walk into a Target with a long gun slung over their shoulder, but that almost universally they are doing so with guns that LOOK like a battle rifle to the uninitiated.....and that they are expecting trouble.
And they KNOW it. They could carry Ruger 10/22s, or Marlin 60s, or Over and Under Browning Citori, or Remington 700 bolt rifles. But they don't. They are almost universally carrying AR15s, AK47s, M1As, SKSs, and FALs......or if it is a shotgun, they're carrying a clearly combat designed black shotgun with an extended magazine tube. It is really hard to avoid the obvious conclusion that they are compensating for a lack of adequacy in.....ahem.....other areas....
I've got no problem with those kinds of guns. I own a few of them myself. I've got no problem with "tacticool". Some of my stuff is "tacticool". But I do have a brain, and I DO understand that, not only are some people not going to share my particular tastes in firearms, they are going to be downright scared to death of guns that LOOK like they were made for the jungles of Vietnam, the deserts of Iraq, and the mountains of Afghanistan. It. Does. Not. Matter. if these are the civilian versions of those weapons......most civilians don't know that, and those guns scare the pee out of them.
Anybody who insists in the face of common sense that they just don't see that is just squeezing their eyes shut and refusing to see reality.
Oldgringo wrote:As I've opined several times, OC ain't no big deal nor is it apparently widely practiced in urban areas where it's legal; however, it is nice to know that the barrel of my 1911 peeking out from under my shirt is not cause for alarm as I munch on my tuna fish sandwich and read today's "THE MISSOULIAN".
If it was cause for alarm, would you still do it? I mean, it IS legal and it IS your right to do so but, if you knew you were upsetting people who didn't have your comfort level with guns, would you still do it? Would you consider it rude? I was raised that good manners was the art of not making people uncomfortable around you, be it not chewing with your mouth open, talking loudly in the library, talking on the phone in a movie theatre, or farting in the checkout line.
I'm quite comfortable with guns. What I'm not comfortable with are people who behave irresponsibly with guns. At gun shops, gun ranges, gun shows and the like, I feel no discomfort as these are appropriate settings for the display of weaponry. But, when I see a guy who thinks it's necessary to demonstrate his machismo by humping an AK into a Subway or department store, I'm uncomfortable for a couple of reasons. One, that sort of behavior doesn't give me confidence in his (or her) cognitive skills and two, I'm out-gunned by this idiot.
The point I apparently failed to make is that even where OC is legal, it doesn't appear to be widely practiced.
SewTexas wrote:it doesn't cause alarm if it's done properly, if it's a pistol in a holster that is left alone, what's the big deal? if it's legal and honestly, most people think "oh, he/she is a LEO". (background, I lived in CO where it's legal, I saw it done frequently, No Big Deal)
people need to stop getting their panties in a wad every time they see a gun (yes, I went there, I guess I can since I'm a female and all)
The point I was trying to make was that while this is obviously "No Big Deal" to you, it might be a "Very Big Deal" to others without your level of sophistication. And as such, maybe it wouldn't hurt to be a little considerate of others. Contrary to your opinion, I think we need to increase the number of bunches in our collective panties with regard to selfish and rude behavior. One of the reasons our society has become so coarse and cantankerous is because of our "It's all about me" mentality. If people were a little more considerate, I probably wouldn't feel the need to carry concealed.
About two years ago, while about to start my quiet motorcycle outside an HEB, a little boy pulled his hand free from his mother and clapped his hands over his ears. She looked at me and said that he's scared of loud motorcycles. I spent a few minutes talking to the little boy, assuring him that my bike wasn't that loud and he and his mother stepped a few feet away while I started it. Once the starter disengaged, it was pretty quiet and I talked to him some more and then left. This subject wouldn't have even come up if some a**hat, proud of his loud and legal pipes hadn't scared the little boy. This same thing is happening all over the country with people like me trying to explain that people like you aren't bad people because you like to carry guns overtly. Paraphrasing the US general about the war in the Middle East, "We're making enemies faster than we can convince them."
I understand more than you do about the fear of sound, two of my nieces haves Sensory Input problems
yes, there are those who have a genuine fear of guns, a genuine fear of the sight of a gun. However, I truly believe that is rare. I'm not sure how they deal with seeing police, DPS, Sheriffs, detectives, Rangers, around here there are a few armed military police, even armed security. I also believe that those who will OC will be few, I probably won't, but I think it should be legal.
~Tracy
Gun control is what you talk about when you don't want to talk about the truth ~ Colion Noir
The Annoyed Man wrote:...I AM reminded of the old story about a Texas Ranger who shows up at a social function in uniform, with a sidearm strapped on. A matron approaches him disapprovingly and says "why do you have a pistol? Are you expecting trouble?" And he replies, "No ma'm, if I was expecting trouble I would have brought a rifle".
I like that story.
I wouldn't have a problem with a cowboy (civilian) bringing his long gun into Target if I'd seen him tie-up his horse outside first.
But these days what these OC folks (Texas, OCT I mean) are doing is causing people who see them to think "Is this guy going to shoot-up the store?" Maybe they need to adopt a T-shirt: "No I'm not crazy and won't hurt you. I only look crazy."
SewTexas wrote:
I understand more than you do about the fear of sound, two of my nieces haves Sensory Input problems
yes, there are those who have a genuine fear of guns, a genuine fear of the sight of a gun. However, I truly believe that is rare. I'm not sure how they deal with seeing police, DPS, Sheriffs, detectives, Rangers, around here there are a few armed military police, even armed security. I also believe that those who will OC will be few, I probably won't, but I think it should be legal.
I don't know what you actually mean by sensory input problems as the term is vague but whatever that is, I'm sorry that they're having problems.
I think I disagree with you on the rarity of Hoplophobia (fear of firearms - who knew?). I don't have any objective data to support this but my subjective experience has been that there are many folks who are at least concerned about them. Even discounting the news reports as they always grab the hysterical ones for the camera, there's a lot of angst out there about this issue.
I think using the LEO's and military as examples is disingenuous. When I see a LEO, even one in civvies (usually a badge on the belt near the gun or on a lanyard), my threat-o-meter doesn't twitch. But when I see some Duck Dynasty wannabe toting a long gun into Wallyworld, my threat assessment light comes on and I begin looking for ways to counteract the threat. It won't be me but somebody's gonna make a mistake and engage one of these idiots. Probably a convenience store clerk who's been robbed once too often and sees the guy coming in the door with an AR as less of a Constitution upholder and more as a store holder-upper.
As to legality, I think this is a solution looking for a problem and has less to do with the 2nd Amendment and more to do with just showing off. I do agree with you (and others) that if it does become legal, it won't become widespread.
This is the third such OC sighting in four summers in this Gold Star OC state! Mrs. Oldgringo asked if our licenses would allow that. I told her we/he didn't need a license for OC in Montana but we/he did need a license for CC. She said, "okay". 
