Fury, the Movie

[philip964]

I saw it this weekend. I felt it was better than Saving Private Ryan. However, it maybe that it has just been a long time since I saw that movie.

Fury certainly told a story about World War II, I had not heard or thought about. Tiger tank rounds are certainly as scary as the cannonballs in the Patriot. Lots of period rifles and machine guns. Second Looeys don't seem to be portrayed well in this movie.

It follows just a few days in the life of an American tank crew at very near the end of the war in Europe, Americans fighting Germans in Germany.

Recommended, but very gory.

[C-dub]

We also want to see it, but just didn't have enough time this weekend.

[threoh8]

I've been planning to see this movie since I saw the first stills showing the 2nd Armored Division "Hell on Wheels" patch, the one I wore in my first unit.

Second Looeys don't seem to be portrayed well in this movie.

Second Lieutenants seldom are.

Remember, though, that Audie Murphy was a 2LT during the action that earned him a medal of honor.

[Dadtodabone]

I've been planning to see this movie since I saw the first stills showing the 2nd Armored Division "heck on Wheels" patch, the one I wore in my first unit.

Second Looeys don't seem to be portrayed well in this movie.

Second Lieutenants seldom are.

Remember, though, that Audie Murphy was a 2LT during the action that earned him a medal of honor.

I went with my youngest son today, good film, all in all.
The "2nd lieutenant is a dope meme", is part and parcel of the anti-elitist, pro-working class ideal that defined America. The college educated, ivory tower elitist relies on his "down to earth Regular Joe" non-coms and soldiers to survive, plays well to an audience that has a 95% "down to earth Regular Joe" composition.

[The Annoyed Man]

I've been planning to see this movie since I saw the first stills showing the 2nd Armored Division "heck on Wheels" patch, the one I wore in my first unit.

Second Looeys don't seem to be portrayed well in this movie.

Second Lieutenants seldom are.

Remember, though, that Audie Murphy was a 2LT during the action that earned him a medal of honor.

I went with my youngest son today, good film, all in all.
The "2nd lieutenant is a dope meme", is part and parcel of the anti-elitist, pro-working class ideal that defined America. The college educated, ivory tower elitist relies on his "down to earth Regular Joe" non-coms and soldiers to survive, plays well to an audience that has a 95% "down to earth Regular Joe" composition.

Exactly. I had written a post for this thread earlier and then decided not to post it. It offends me that 2nd Lts are usually portrayed so badly. My dad was a 2nd Lt in the Marines, and took a bullet in the chest for his nation on a barren piece of of a Japanese island. He mourned for the rest of his life the men he lost under his command. I have the official class book for my dad's SOCS class. The number of his classmates with "KIA" next to their names is simply staggering. The number with "WIA" next to their names makes up nearly the rest of the list. When your junior level officers are just as exposed to danger as the men under their command, and yet they carry all the additional burdens of command that enlisted men don't have to carry, the moral distinctions between the two are largely irrelevant. And I'm willing to bet that for every "bad" 2nd Lt, you could find 10 "bad" draftee enlisted men due to differences in training, education, and personal willingness to shoulder responsibility. Whoever invented that meme can go pee up a rope. It's really no different than employees who don't like to be told what to do, so their boss is automatically a jerk.

[MechAg94]

I saw the thread title and thought this was something to do with Furries. Happy it was not.


How to conceal inside a costume!

[philip964]

I've been planning to see this movie since I saw the first stills showing the 2nd Armored Division "heck on Wheels" patch, the one I wore in my first unit.

Second Looeys don't seem to be portrayed well in this movie.

Second Lieutenants seldom are.

Remember, though, that Audie Murphy was a 2LT during the action that earned him a medal of honor.

I went with my youngest son today, good film, all in all.
The "2nd lieutenant is a dope meme", is part and parcel of the anti-elitist, pro-working class ideal that defined America. The college educated, ivory tower elitist relies on his "down to earth Regular Joe" non-coms and soldiers to survive, plays well to an audience that has a 95% "down to earth Regular Joe" composition.

Exactly. I had written a post for this thread earlier and then decided not to post it. It offends me that 2nd Lts are usually portrayed so badly. My dad was a 2nd Lt in the Marines, and took a bullet in the chest for his nation on a barren piece of of a Japanese island. He mourned for the rest of his life the men he lost under his command. I have the official class book for my dad's SOCS class. The number of his classmates with "KIA" next to their names is simply staggering. The number with "WIA" next to their names makes up nearly the rest of the list. When your junior level officers are just as exposed to danger as the men under their command, and yet they carry all the additional burdens of command that enlisted men don't have to carry, the moral distinctions between the two are largely irrelevant. And I'm willing to bet that for every "bad" 2nd Lt, you could find 10 "bad" draftee enlisted men due to differences in training, education, and personal willingness to shoulder responsibility. Whoever invented that meme can go pee up a rope. It's really no different than employees who don't like to be told what to do, so their boss is automatically a jerk.

Spoiler:

If I'm not mistaken. A child soldier takes out the young 2nd Lt. and his tank crew.

[Abraham]

Second lieutenants become generals.

From Captain on too, many of our officers are just as in the battle an any enlisted.

C'mon, our junior grade officers face the life threatening dangers/hardships of our EM's, without as many gut wrenching decisions. At least, most of the time...

[The Annoyed Man]

I was a 2nd lieutenant - but I had enough sense to listen to men wiser than me, my NCOs :)

And most 2nd Lts learn exactly that, because necessity forces it on them, their success requires it, and they are highly motivated to be successful. Very few come up through the enlisted ranks, having spent time as NCOs themselves before joining the officer corps, so they don't come fresh out of OCS knowing how to actually administrate a platoon. Sure, there is the occasional officer who doesn't have his head screwed on straight, but that is no more an issue than it is among the enlisted ranks. It is arguable that, since officers are way outnumbered by enlisted personnel, it is easier to find idiots among the enlisted ranks than among officers. But making that argument doesn't serve any good purpose......and neither does the reverse.

[LAYGO]

The way I've understood the turn of the Vietnam war was around '68-'69, including Tet Offensive, was that a lot of lifetime NCOs were rotating back while fresh out of school LTs were coming in, as well as the draftees vs volunteers.

My Father served 5 years in Vietnam during that time though. Came home in '71, started in '65 with the 1st Brigade, 101st ABN. My Father in law served 4 years. It's where he met his wife as she was a translator for MAC-V.

[The Annoyed Man]

C'mon, our junior grade officers face the life threatening dangers/hardships of our EM's, without as many gut wrenching decisions. At least, most of the time...

Tell that to the junior grade officers at Iwo Jima. My dad told me that learning decision making was a big part of learning to be a 2nd Lt......and that they were graded heavily on their decision making in SOCS.

[howdy]

I am way to cynical when watching movies like this. Why can a bunch of kids with an anti-tank weapon take out a tank yet a battalion of SS troops can't do the same. Why do those same SS troops goose step along in formation with slung weapons in a combat zone. Why is the enemy always portrayed as being stupid. Since when is murder and rape acceptable for U.S. combat forces. (I am sure it happens but as a Pilot I never saw it).... and when is that considered entertainment? I know, it is just a movie.

[Jim Beaux]

SNIP

The way I've understood the turn of the Vietnam war was around '68-'69, including Tet Offensive, was that a lot of lifetime NCOs were rotating back while fresh out of school LTs were coming in, as well as the draftees vs volunteers.

I agree that VNam was largely responsible for the diminished image of LTs.

My understanding is our military structure broke down in VNam. There was an experience gap between the veteran NCO's & the new crop of young & ill prepared LTs.

A portion of NCO's were Korean vets & had "been there - done that" - while the veteran LTs had promoted or retired. The vacuum was filled with a crop of young and inexperienced LTs whose knowledge was restricted to classroom "theory". These newbies were thrown into the pit & forced to sink or swim. They did not get adequate support & were the weakest link as a result.

The LTs in VNam were behind the curve and had little time to catch up. Once they gained experience they were sent stateside.

I cant imagine a young, fresh out of school, 22 year old being thrown into such a hellish predicament in which they saw first hand the consequences of their battle field decisions.

There were plenty of unprepared and "know-nothing" officers in the mix - but it was the "stuck in the middle LTs" that was conveniently blamed until the military adjusted its tactics....from pathetic to apathetic.

Our junior officers were also victims of the unjust VNam debacle.