Flying on Continental Austin to Atlanta--need info

[CWOOD]

I have checked the Contitnental website and talked to a rep on the phone.

I know how to handle the handgun. My question is about handling of loaded magazines, if possible. TSA permits them if fully encased in pouch or sleeve so as not to expose the ammunition. Continental rep on the phone said loaded magazines could be carried if enclosed in plastic metal or fiber sleeves.

I was think of packing a Uncle Mikes nylon pouch with velcro strap for the magazine. Sounds like fiber to me.Will this work or should I just download to origial ammo packaging?

I appreciate any help based on your experience with Continental....Thanks

[frankie_the_yankee]

Are loaded mags that important?

It's not like you're gonna parachute out of the plane somewhere over Atlanta and need to hit the ground running, and fully armed.

After you pick up your rental car stop at a quickie mart and "arm up" in the restroom.

Sure, you might get whacked in the first couple of miles or so, while looking for the quickie mart. But what's life without a little risk here and there?

[SRVA]

There will be a lot less hassle through the inconsistent TSA system if you unload the magazines and put the ammunition in the original box.

Steve

[jimlongley]

There will be a lot less hassle through the inconsistent TSA system if you unload the magazines and put the ammunition in the original box.

Steve

I'll kind of second that, but point out that it's not so much the TSA that's inconsistent, it's the airlines.

The rep you spoke to obviously doesn't understand the rules and may have been reading them while talking to you and misinterpreting them.

Although loaded mags can be carried per the rules, I agree with the above, why bother? It doesn't take but a couple of minutes to reload them at the other end and it saves any questions.

[anygunanywhere]

What these guys said. Declaring your firearms in checked baggage is easy. The process is simple but different ticket agents and TSA screeners will do things differently. JUst go along with the flow. Packing the ammo in the original container is the best way to go.

Instead of a "stop and rob" I load up in the rental lot, and accaisiionallly have used the cell phone lot of the airport.

Anygun

[CWOOD]

WELL, THIS IS HOW IT WENT...

I had an 0815 filight out of Austin and arrived at 0700.

Fortunately it was a slow, mid-week morning and not much of a crowd. I stood in line with only one person ahead and even with that short wait a "roving" Continental agent came over and personally helped me to check in. I advised him of my declaring an unloaded handgun to check in. He only asked to confirm that it was unloaded and that it was encased in a hardsided locked container. He never asked about ammunition, magazines or anything else. He just printed my boarding passes, tagged my bag straight through to Atlanta and referred me to the TSA station.

The TSA officer asked me to see the weapon. I unlocked the hardsided luggage and the steel pistol case and allowed him to look at the pistol. He did not pick it up. I had secured a plastic security tie through the barrel and out the ejection port to demonstrate its unloaded status. The TSA officer asked me about ammunition and if it was less than 11 pounds. I had used a zip up camera case to hold a box of 50 rounds and two empty magazines. He did not ask to see them. He then swabbed the suitcase for explosives, and asked me to sign the declaration tag and place it in the luggage NEXT TO the locked pistol box. I locked the suitcase and he loaded it onto the conveyor.

Everything arrived in good order.

The whole thing was essentially a non-event. Everone acted professionally and courteously and efficiently. It maybe took an extra five minutes.

OBSERVATIONS:
I could have had the magazines loaded in the zip up camera bag as no one even looked. However it was not a problem to do as I did and another occasion might have provided different results.

To those who have not checked a handgun, my one expereince suggests that you shouldn't worry about it too much.

CAVEATS:
Be aware that this is Texas and other places will differ.

Be aware that other airline personnel and TSA officers might insist on different proceedures so go with the flow.

Courtesy begets courtesy so be the first to offer it.

Try to fly at non-peak times if you are checking in a firearm.

The security tie through the barrel and ejection port idea was picked up on another forum but made sense and I recommend it. It allow TSA to see the unloaded statuse quickly without handling the weapon. It is also very easy to remove at the other end and does not require any disassembly.

The declaration tag should go in the luggage but next to the pistol case, but I have read of some officials who want it IN the pistol case. Go with the flow but I would politely ask how putting it in the case would help notify a later TSA person that the weapon had already been inspected...that is the purpose of it. I have read of some who have hade the tag insided with the weapon and they had to break the case to re-inspect it.

HINT: I have been concerned with someone stealing the locked pistol case out of a piece of luggage. It would be easy to conceal while dumping the outer bag.

I used one of the steel locking cases which employs a cable to secure the case to a stationary object for security. I installed a pair of metal loops to the frame of my suitcase with 1/4" machine screws/nuts and threaded the cable through them. This would prevent the thief from separating the pistol box from the suitcase. It might not totally prevent theft but they would have to steal and conceal the whole suitcae. It would certainly stop a snatch and run thief.

I hope this helps someone. Thanks for the advice of others.

[frankie_the_yankee]

OBSERVATIONS:
I could have had the magazines loaded in the zip up camera bag as no one even looked.

They didn't need to look. They run all of the bags through an X-ray machine. If you had loaded mags, they could see them with no problem. They could even count the rounds in them if they wanted to.

As to whether you would have been hassled with loaded mags, I can't say. Maybe, and maybe not.

Actually, I think it's odd that they made you open the case and show them the gun. They can see that it is unloaded with the X-ray machine without bothering to open the case.

And swabbing things for explosives seems problematic when someone has declared a gun. A gun and/or ammo box is likely to have traces of nitrates on it unless thoroughly cleaned beforehand. This would be from powder residue. So they would get a positive indication - but so what? The guy declared a gun. It's going to have nitrate residue on it, and there will be small amounts on other things in the bag that the gun or gun case (or your hands after handling the gun) has come in contact with.

Maybe the explanation is just that when you're dealing with the government, what they do doesn't have to make sense.

[frankie_the_yankee]

The declaration tag should go in the luggage but next to the pistol case, but I have read of some officials who want it IN the pistol case. Go with the flow but I would politely ask how putting it in the case would help notify a later TSA person that the weapon had already been inspected...that is the purpose of it. I have read of some who have hade the tag insided with the weapon and they had to break the case to re-inspect it.

No. The purpose of it is for you to understand that you are violating federal law if you are lying about the gun being unloaded, and that you are also creating a paper trail facilitating your conviction.

With or without the tag, in or out of the box, if a TSA agent gets it into his head that he needs to get into the box, they will break the locks to do so if they have to.

I have never had this happen, but there's always a first time.

I use Doskosil type cases with those dinky little locks on the latches that all use the same key. I usually put the case inside a larger piece of luggage, but have sometimes just checked the "bare" case itself. I figure if TSA needs to open it, they MUST have a key.

But someday I'm gonna break down and get a nice Pelican case. Then I'll have to get a "TSA" lock to go along with it so they can get in if they need to without breaking it.

[anygunanywhere]

But someday I'm gonna break down and get a nice Pelican case. Then I'll have to get a "TSA" lock to go along with it so they can get in if they need to without breaking it.

Yankee, I use a pelican case and use two of the Pelican combination locks. The pistol is still accessible with only one lock on the case so TSA has several tiimes commented on my using two locks. The Pelican locks are not the TSA accessible type. The lock on the outside of my luggage is the TSA type, and that one has been cut off several times. It is my ubderstanding that the locks on your hard case can be accessed by only you.

From the TSA website
The container must be locked.

We recommend that you provide the key or combination to the security officer if he or she needs to open the container. You should remain present during screening to take the key back after the container is cleared. If you are not present and the security officer must open the container, we or the airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact you. If we can’t contact you, the container will not be placed on the plane. Federal regulations prohibit unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) on aircraft.

The Pelican cases are really nice to use. I have a smaller one for my ammo and magazines too.

Anygun

[jimlongley]

. . .
The TSA officer asked me to see the weapon. I unlocked the hardsided luggage and the steel pistol case and allowed him to look at the pistol. He did not pick it up.

It may be that the ssteel case obscured the weapon just enough for the operator to not be able to tell that it was unloaded, or the automated system may have alerted on the combined density.

I had secured a plastic security tie through the barrel and out the ejection port to demonstrate its unloaded status.

Unnecessary, but not a half bad idea.

The TSA officer asked me about ammunition and if it was less than 11 pounds.

Obviously someone who doesn't know that there is no federal limit to the amount of ammo one can transport. Eleven pounds is an OLD rule and one implemented by several of the airlines, which does include Continental. Since it's an airline rule, it is not up to TSA to enforce it.

In the three years I was a TSA screener, we had this fight a couple of times in 2002, and that was the end of it.

I had used a zip up camera case to hold a box of 50 rounds and two empty magazines. He did not ask to see them.

Generally if the ammo looks like it is secured on the x-ray, there is no need to look at it. It's real easy to tell the difference between secured ammo and unsecured.

He then swabbed the suitcase for explosives,

I always get a laugh out of that, I have even had a recently fired handgun swabbed, by the TSA screener who WAS HANDLING IT (I did file a report on her, I was a TSA screener at the time and knew the rules) and I was amazed the the sniffer didn't alarm, wich probably means that it was out of calibration, badly.

and asked me to sign the declaration tag and place it in the luggage NEXT TO the locked pistol box.

It's the airliine's responsibility to have you sign the declaration, not TSA's.

And placement of the declaration seems to vary, but that is also not a TSA responsibility.

Everything arrived in good order.

And that is always a good thing.

I have to be careful when I travel. If I leave through Love Field I know most of the screeners and they are likely to play little tricks on me, like shink wrapping my entire bag. I always make sure that one of my knives is packed in an accessible outside pocket so that I can cut away plastic wrap and excessive numbers of tye wraps.

I could have had the magazines loaded in the zip up camera bag as no one even looked. However it was not a problem to do as I did and another occasion might have provided different results.

It's possible that if the screener running the x-ray saw loded mags that they might have looked closer. Like I said above, it's easy to tell if ammo is packed properly.

Be aware that this is Texas and other places will differ.

Be aware that other airline personnel and TSA officers might insist on different proceedures so go with the flow.

Yes, absolutely. After I left TSA I spent nine months traveling continuously, and was amazed at the differences in what is supposed to be a standardized procedure.

Courtesy begets courtesy so be the first to offer it.

Yup.

Try to fly at non-peak times if you are checking in a firearm.

Or get there early enough.

The security tie through the barrel and ejection port idea was picked up on another forum but made sense and I recommend it. It allow TSA to see the unloaded statuse quickly without handling the weapon. It is also very easy to remove at the other end and does not require any disassembly.

A TSA screener should NEVER handle a firearm, under any circumstances, for any reason, NEVER. If there is a question about a firearm that you have declared and demonstrated to the airline to be unloaded, then a LEO must be called to handle the firearm.

I always just leave the action open on my guns, that's also very easy to see on an x-ray.

[para driver]

not all airports have the $1M X-ray machine, Lubbock for example.

ammo in the factory box or a plastic reloading box is the best way to go. It's true that many airline employees are 'winging it' on the rules. I had a airline printout from American that I used to carry, just to show the agent the exact rules on their own stationary. Only needed it once with a certain, German, blatantly Gay agent in Chicago. I was travelling with a 100% Sweet 16 Belgian A-5 Round Knob, and he says something like 'all I know is it kills'.. and I replied 'guess your safe because you don't look like a pheasant'..

I've had a pistol stolen from my luggage before, but I got it back, a long story. I NOW break down the pistol/revolver and place a hardened lock through the magazine well or frame in some manner as to render the weapon useless. They won't get that lock off without destroying the gun.
Just wrap the lock in a little electrical tape and it won't scratch the gun.