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I have a need to sight in a couple of rifles, iron sights, scopes and red dots, and maybe even a pistol or two.

What gear makes it sure and simple? Bench rest bags? Fancy rifle stands? Plain old wooden risers with bags of whatever?

I think military shooters do this all the time, and probably without much fancy gear.

JALLEN wrote:I have a need to sight in a couple of rifles, iron sights, scopes and red dots, and maybe even a pistol or two.

What gear makes it sure and simple? Bench rest bags? Fancy rifle stands? Plain old wooden risers with bags of whatever?

I think military shooters do this all the time, and probably without much fancy gear.

Regular infantry riflemen are shooting for 2 MOA accuracy as acceptable, but snipers, using completely different firearms, are shooting for 1/2 MOA. They shoot different weapons, with different sighting systems, and use different procedures and equipment to zero. How you go about this is going to depend on what you are zeroing, and what kind of accuracy you're after.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

JALLEN wrote:I have a need to sight in a couple of rifles, iron sights, scopes and red dots, and maybe even a pistol or two.

What gear makes it sure and simple? Bench rest bags? Fancy rifle stands? Plain old wooden risers with bags of whatever?

I think military shooters do this all the time, and probably without much fancy gear.

Regular infantry riflemen are shooting for 2 MOA accuracy as acceptable, but snipers, using completely different firearms, are shooting for 1/2 MOA. They shoot different weapons, with different sighting systems, and use different procedures and equipment to zero. How you go about this is going to depend on what you are zeroing, and what kind of accuracy you're after.

I'm no sniper, of course, either from the standpoint of long range, or extreme accuracy. I probably can't see a bullseye at 100 yards with iron sights anymore.

I have a 10-22, a Win 94 .357, an M-4gery and a AR-22 to check, iron sights, red dot on a couple, a scope to zero.

I hope I don't heed a fancy bench rest stand. A couple of sand bags, front and rear, might suffice. 50 yards ought to be adequate.

I use a rest similar to this with a suede leather sandbag to protect the finish on the gun.

I have used it to sight in my Rem 700 at 100 yards - with groups less than 1 MOA.

WildBill wrote:I use a rest similar to this with a suede leather sandbag to protect the finish on the gun.

I have used it to sight in my Rem 700 at 100 yards - with groups less than 1 MOA.

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Thanks. The reviews on Midway's site for this one are pretty dismal. Yours is "similar."

Have you used/seen this one? Many of the ones similar are a lot more costly.

JALLEN wrote:

WildBill wrote:I use a rest similar to this with a suede leather sandbag to protect the finish on the gun.

I have used it to sight in my Rem 700 at 100 yards - with groups less than 1 MOA.

[ Image ]

Thanks. The reviews on Midway's site for this one are pretty dismal. Yours is "similar."

Have you used/seen this one? Many of the ones similar are a lot more costly.

No, I have not used/seen this one. Mine is 40+ years old and no longer made.

Sandbags, if you already have them, are perfect.......actually a little better than other kinds of rifle rests because, once you've hit the target, your gun isn't as hard to get back on target. As far as 50 yards, that is actually the perfect sighting distance for your M4gery. With either 55 or 62 grain bullets, that will give you +2" above point of aim at about 130 yards, and 2" below point of aim at something like 225 or 240 yards. It's called a Santose Improved Battle Sight Zero. It makes your AR into a "point and click" rifle out to 240 yards........if you can see that far. That means that if you put your red dot on a target, you'll hit no more than 2" high or 2" low all the way out to that distance.

Here are the comparative traces for M855 and M193 ball with a 50 yard zero: Additional info here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/32814 ... _Zero.html

I am a lot less familiar with .22 LR ballistics, since I never shoot them beyond about 25 yards or so, and I've no experience with .357 in a rifle. But I would think that if you can get it zeroed at 50, you can always move back later and see what your fall of shot looks like and figure it out easily enough.

I don't think this Hoppe's rest is even available any longer. It's not on Hoppe's website. You want to reduce instability as much as possible. The one Wild Bill referenced is perfectly adequate as a front rest with the addition of a bag in the cradle, it has some rudimentary adjustment features, but you don't really need them unless your trying to achieve tack driving accuracy. A rear support helps as well. As long as you can minimize movement you'll be fine. How much you want to invest to achieve that is up to you. Sand bags work fine to sight a weapon, but you can spend several hundred dollars for precision rests and even then they are not a do-all. Pistol rests differ from bench rests for rifles. Depending on what manner of adjustments are built into your weapons' iron sights will determine what you'll need - any thing from your fingers, to a gunsmith screwdriver (an ordinary hardware screwdriver can mar the screws) , to a brass hammer and drift. Scopes are easier and you can Google for the methods used. Good shooting and good luck!

In the units where I served, we didn't spend much time sighting in rifles. When we did, it was usually from foxhole supported. Climb down into the concrete "foxhole" on the range, arrange the beat-up sand bags around the lip, and make do.

Mind the snakes, spiders and such when you take the lid off and while you're in there - wouldn't want to hurt the range officer's pets, now would we?

Pistols, we didn't sight in. Just fired for familiarization and qualification.

WalMart used to sell a sandbag for, IIRC, around $10. I don't know if they still do. For your rifles and 50 yards, even a rolled up exercise mat will work. You really only need something to steady the rifle on allowing precise aim. The only iron sighted rifle I own that really needs a sandbag is my High Power Service Rifle, which has "precision" iron sights.

If you want to spend some money, here is the place to do it:
http://www.sinclairintl.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also easy to make your own sandbags, an old pair of jeans that are not hole-ridden in the legs will do the trick. Bag of play sand is like $2-3 ? Cut leg parts to desired size, tie off with old shoe laces or whatever else appropriate.

I've heard that large cloth bags(5lbs?) of rice works really well, and they don't weigh near as much as sand bags. I've never used them but it makes sense to me.

The Annoyed Man wrote:Sandbags, if you already have them, are perfect.......actually a little better than other kinds of rifle rests because, once you've hit the target, your gun isn't as hard to get back on target. As far as 50 yards, that is actually the perfect sighting distance for your M4gery. With either 55 or 62 grain bullets, that will give you +2" above point of aim at about 130 yards, and 2" below point of aim at something like 225 or 240 yards. It's called a Santose Improved Battle Sight Zero. It makes your AR into a "point and click" rifle out to 240 yards........if you can see that far. That means that if you put your red dot on a target, you'll hit no more than 2" high or 2" low all the way out to that distance.

Here are the comparative traces for M855 and M193 ball with a 50 yard zero:

M855-vs-M193-16-inch-barrel.jpg

Additional info here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/32814 ... _Zero.html

I am a lot less familiar with .22 LR ballistics, since I never shoot them beyond about 25 yards or so, and I've no experience with .357 in a rifle. But I would think that if you can get it zeroed at 50, you can always move back later and see what your fall of shot looks like and figure it out easily enough.

That is a fascinating collection of detailed information. Thanks! I don't think it works for my rifle, though. I have the shorter barrel, no carry handle. Thankfully, it won't be necessary to figure all that out for my purposes.

I need to figure out the most efficient way to accomplish a modest zero. I thought first about the set up used in
The Box o Truth series, an adjustable platform with a good sized leather sand/shot bag. That is probably superb but likely more then I need. I did some of this back in San Diego with some wooden risers and shot bags furnished by the range, and thought that was a bit ahh, informal. This would be pretty simple if I knew what I was doing, and I appreciate all the forbearance while I try to achieve that.

JALLEN wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:Sandbags, if you already have them, are perfect.......actually a little better than other kinds of rifle rests because, once you've hit the target, your gun isn't as hard to get back on target. As far as 50 yards, that is actually the perfect sighting distance for your M4gery. With either 55 or 62 grain bullets, that will give you +2" above point of aim at about 130 yards, and 2" below point of aim at something like 225 or 240 yards. It's called a Santose Improved Battle Sight Zero. It makes your AR into a "point and click" rifle out to 240 yards........if you can see that far. That means that if you put your red dot on a target, you'll hit no more than 2" high or 2" low all the way out to that distance.

Here are the comparative traces for M855 and M193 ball with a 50 yard zero:

M855-vs-M193-16-inch-barrel.jpg

Additional info here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/32814 ... _Zero.html

I am a lot less familiar with .22 LR ballistics, since I never shoot them beyond about 25 yards or so, and I've no experience with .357 in a rifle. But I would think that if you can get it zeroed at 50, you can always move back later and see what your fall of shot looks like and figure it out easily enough.

That is a fascinating collection of detailed information. Thanks! I don't think it works for my rifle, though. I have the shorter barrel, no carry handle. Thankfully, it won't be necessary to figure all that out for my purposes.

I need to figure out the most efficient way to accomplish a modest zero. I thought first about the set up used in
The Box o Truth series, an adjustable platform with a good sized leather sand/shot bag. That is probably superb but likely more then I need. I did some of this back in San Diego with some wooden risers and shot bags furnished by the range, and thought that was a bit ahh, informal. This would be pretty simple if I knew what I was doing, and I appreciate all the forbearance while I try to achieve that.

The carry handle is irrelevant. If you have iron sights, and you adjust them so that your rifle is zeroed at 50 yards with those iron sights, you will still be -/+/- 2" all the way out to 250 yards, with zero at 50 and around 225 yards. How much adjustment is necessary is going to be dependent upon your rifle, the load, the quality of the iron sights, etc., etc. The thing is, it works.

I just use a bore sighter to get my rifles on the paper then take it to the range to refine the adjustment. I have lasers that go in the chamber and not into the end of the barrel. since all my rifles have quick attachments for my suppessor it effects the alignment.