Class 3 Question

[jb2012]

I am brand new to the class 3 area, and it seems like some choppy water. Nevertheless I want to put together a .300 blk sbr and also get a can for it, probably make one to be exact. (I really enjoy building things and putting things together). So my question is, if I go buy a stripped lower tomorrow and buy it as a "pistol" that I intend on making an sbr with after receiving my stamp, will I be able to take it home and use it as a pistol until my stamp comes in? Did I incriminate myself by asking this? Bottom line is if I don't have to I don't want to leave a stripped lower with an FFL for 6 months waiting on a stamp to come in. Any other options?

[TexasJohnBoy]

If I understand your question right, and I understand suppressors right, the only class 3 item requiring the stamp is the suppressor itself. You can get lowers all day long assuming that you go through your FFL of choice. You're just looking at building a 300 blackout AR, and want to stick a suppressor on it later?

That being said -- if its wrong someone please correct. Or if I completely misunderstood the question, then I will go walk on a banana peel.

[cheezit]

Yes but I would not buy the stock till you have the stamp.
Im sure someone will come along that knows more will provide a longer awnser with more detail.
Im in the same boat btw.
Look at the 25 45 sharps round as well, imo it looks better then the 300 aac

[TexasJohnBoy]

Apparently I need edumacation. I didn't think that you needed a stamp for that except for the suppressor. Does a 300 blackout require a stamp if it's not a shouldered rifle? Sorry to be fully noobie.

[goose]

Apparently I need edumacation. I didn't think that you needed a stamp for that except for the suppressor. Does a 300 blackout require a stamp if it's not a shouldered rifle? Sorry to be fully noobie.

He mentioned that he wants to buy a lower and use it as a pistol until the paperwork comes back to make it a SBR. He is asking if it has to become an SBR in the FFLs hands once it is "declared" (so to speak) by the NFA application. Or is it only an SBR after the paperwork comes back? That is how I understand the question, anyway.

[jb2012]

Apparently I need edumacation. I didn't think that you needed a stamp for that except for the suppressor. Does a 300 blackout require a stamp if it's not a shouldered rifle? Sorry to be fully noobie.

He mentioned that he wants to buy a lower and use it as a pistol until the paperwork comes back to make it a SBR. He is asking if it has to become an SBR in the FFLs hands once it is "declared" (so to speak) by the NFA application. Or is it only an SBR after the paperwork comes back? That is how I understand the question, anyway.

Yes! Much better wording! Haha I swear I practice my words every day, and one day I'll be able to make good sentences!

[TexasJohnBoy]

I think I'm caught up now. I haven't bought a stripped lower before (although I plan to soon) so when you do pick that up at the FFL you have to declare what it's going to be in its future life? short barrel = stamp, normal joe blow rifle = standard NICS/etc ? Sorry to thread jack here

[jb2012]

I think I'm caught up now. I haven't bought a stripped lower before (although I plan to soon) so when you do pick that up at the FFL you have to declare what it's going to be in its future life? short barrel = stamp, normal joe blow rifle = standard NICS/etc ? Sorry to thread jack here

I've only bought one stripped lower from Runner Runner Guns in Mckinney. (highly recommend, great group of guys) I clearly remember them asking if I was making it into a rifle or pistol, and to be absolutely sure I wanted to make it a rifle, as they cannot go back to pistol form.

No worries we are all learning here!!

[jb2012]

I'm also unsure if "declared" sbr at purchase, does the FFL keep it until you receive your tax stamp, like a supressor?

[ScottDLS]

If you buy a stripped lower and have to state what it will be....then state HANDGUN. It's OK to make a title I (non-NFA) pistol into a rifle without a stamp, but DO NOT make a PISTOL out of a rifle (that's considered MAKING a SBR). So if you want to put a pistol upper on it while you wait for your stamp, then declare it a HANDGUN when you buy the lower.

Your NFA Form 1 with stamp, gives you permission to BUILD a SBR. Don't buy the upper until you get the approved form 1. Then remember to mark the name of the manufacturer (YOU or your trust) and a NEW ser # on the gun when you build it. My preference for my first build is going to be #0000001.

[jb2012]

If you buy a stripped lower and have to state what it will be....then state HANDGUN. It's OK to make a title I (non-NFA) pistol into a rifle without a stamp, but DO NOT make a PISTOL out of a rifle (that's considered MAKING a SBR). So if you want to put a pistol upper on it while you wait for your stamp, then declare it a HANDGUN when you buy the lower.

Your NFA Form 1 with stamp, gives you permission to BUILD a SBR. Don't buy the upper until you get the approved form 1. Then remember to mark the name of the manufacturer (YOU or your trust) and a NEW ser # on the gun when you build it. My preference for my first build is going to be #0000001.

Perfect! I'm hoping to capitalize on at least 2 stripped lowers on Black Friday, making one a .300 blk pistol (eventually sbr) and then one a rifle with a 14.5 pinned & tacked flash hider. Tell me more about the 25 45? Seems like a faster heavier caliber than a .300 blk but obviously would be super sonic right?

[lfinsr]

I'm probably wrong but it was my understanding the lower can't be both. Either you buy it as a SBR or as a pistol. Once declared it is what it is. If it was purchased as a pistol and you put a standard rifle upper on it you're breaking the law.

I couldn't find the source where I originally found this but I'll look later tonight and see if I can't find it.

ETA: The letter here makes it clear as mud, in particular the top of page 2. Since I'm not interested in Federal prison I'd probably go the conservative route and just let the FFL hold the parts until they were ready to be assembled with tax stamp in hand. YMMV

[SigM4]

So a little clarification. A lower is either a pistol or a rifle, it will never be classified at purchase as an SBR. While you may buy the gun as an SBR direct from an FFL, the lower at that point is still considered a rifle (Short Barreled Rifle), just that you have the requisite Form 1 (or 4) to posses it in a shorten configuration.

As to your question, you can do several things.

1.) Purchase the lower as a pistol, take it home, slap an upper on it less than 16" and shoot it as a pistol until the Form 1 clears (engraving can be done before or after you get the stamp), then install your stock and you're good to go. The benefit here is that you can go ahead and buy the upper you want and start playing around with it to make sure everything works.

2.) Purchase the lower as a rifle, take it home, put a stock on it, and wait to purchase a short upper.

There may be a third or fourth conceivable option, but beyond these two it just gets too convoluted.

My suggestion would be to go with #1. The reason(s) I say this are, as someone else pointed out, a pistol can always be made into a rifle (and back again), but a rifle can never be made into a pistol. Second, by going this route it allows you to start tweaking the gun before the stamp shows up. Yes, it won't be exactly the same without a stock, but you can check it for function and do any modes you want to while you wait.

As to the points about not purchasing the stock until you get the stamp etc., if the only lower you have in the safe is a rifle lower, and the only upper you have is a short upper, then it wouldn't be too hard to prove constructive intent. However, if you've got other ARs, who's to say that the stock isn't to swap on to one of them? I think a lot of folks get really worked up over this without considering the whole picture. Conversely, once you have one SBR'd lower, you can have as many short uppers for it as you want, so constructive intent becomes even less of an issue. By going the pistol route (as stated above), you're pretty well insulating yourself from 99% of the issues that someone could potentially run into.

Edited to add:

So for a little explanation on how you can do this without running afoul of the law, see what I did below. We'll focus on guns #2 & 3 (top to bottom) in the picture below.



Order of purchase/build:
-Lower on #3 was set up as a pistol
-Upper on #2 (11.5" 5.56) was purchased and placed on lower #3
-Lower #2 was purchased as a rifle and immediate filed Form 1 on it for SBR.
-Once Form 1 was approved, upper #2 was swapped to lower #2 (now an SBR).
-Lower #3 converted to rifle with addition of stock.
-Upper #3 purchased (8.5" 300 BLK), was left in the safe with the now SBR rifle #2. (As I said, you can have as many uppers for an SBR'd lower as you want).
-Form 1 filed for lower #3
-Form 1 approved, upper #3 put onto lower #3.

[SigM4]

Your NFA Form 1 with stamp, gives you permission to BUILD a SBR. Don't buy the upper until you get the approved form 1. Then remember to mark the name of the manufacturer (YOU or your trust) and a NEW ser # on the gun when you build it. My preference for my first build is going to be #0000001.

So long as the lower was purchased and is currently configured as a pistol there's no issue with putting a short upper on it while you wait for the Form 1 to come back. Additionally, when you build an SBR, the only additional engraving you need to have is who built it (individual name or trust, and where) as the manufacture's serial number is what is used on the form. Thus "ABC Trust, Waco, TX" is what you would put.

[ScottDLS]

Your NFA Form 1 with stamp, gives you permission to BUILD a SBR. Don't buy the upper until you get the approved form 1. Then remember to mark the name of the manufacturer (YOU or your trust) and a NEW ser # on the gun when you build it. My preference for my first build is going to be #0000001.

So long as the lower was purchased and is currently configured as a pistol there's no issue with putting a short upper on it while you wait for the Form 1 to come back. Additionally, when you build an SBR, the only additional engraving you need to have is who built it (individual name or trust, and where) as the manufacture's serial number is what is used on the form. Thus "ABC Trust, Waco, TX" is what you would put.

only don't put a short upper w/ a stock on it. you need to keep it a pistol or a title 1 rifle before you get the stamp.