experiences with CHL

[Seburiel]

I am curious:
I understand that accidental flashing and printing of a concealed firearm is not illegal, under the law (considering intent). But how have experiences born this out?
Has anyone been arrested/hassled (not just reminded) for an accidental pistol flash?
This is probably covered elsewhere, but be durned if I can find it.
and, if this is the wrong forum for this, please, feel free to move it, and I apologize in advance.

[seamusTX]

Has anyone been arrested/hassled (not just reminded) for an accidental pistol flash?

Yes, people have; but mostly in the early years of CHL.

- Jim

[Seburiel]

Has it happened recently?
Were there convictions based on those flashes?

[seamusTX]

Has it happened recently?
Were there convictions based on those flashes?

Just arrests, as far as I know. I'll try to dig up the accounts, but it will take more time than I have right now. The most recent one I remember off the top of my head was before the year 2000.

[Later] This is the absolute worst case that I have heard of: Click here

Other incidents have been reported in this forum, but I can't find them.

- Jim

[Hoppes]

Has it happened recently?
Were there convictions based on those flashes?

Just arrests, as far as I know. I'll try to dig up the accounts, but it will take more time than I have right now. The most recent one I remember off the top of my head was before the year 2000.

[Later] This is the absolute worst case that I have heard of: Click here

Other incidents have been reported in this forum, but I can't find them.

- Jim

Jim,

I've read that incident story and some of the things said later by others sure leads me to question whether these police officers knew before they pulled the guy over whether or not he had a permit or license to conceal a handgun. I don't know where Wautega is and I know some small town police departments have a low budget and all cars may not have a computer. But I wonder if they ran a 27,28, and 29 before they pulled him over. I suppose the question for me is, "Does the state Wautega is located in reports CHLS information when a LEO requests 27,28, and 29?" Many LEOs only run the license and the dispatcher returns only the "no 29 information". Some LEOs request additional 27, 28, etc. on a case by case basis.

This is a really scary story. It seems that someone at the convenience store saw the guy's gun grip and called the police on him. What a mess he got into although he didn't do anything wrong according to the story.

That guy, lawfully carrying a concealed handgun, could have lost his life in an instant at the whim of a Wautega LEO.

Hoppes

[seamusTX]

Watauga is a suburb of Ft. Worth.

Many details we will never know. Running a license plate does not tell you whether the owner of the car has a CHL, and in any case the person driving may not be the owner.

I have no idea what police departments do with CHL notifications from DPS. I suspect they go into a drawer and aren't quickly accessible.

I don't know whether the person arrested was a resident of the town, either.

IMHO, some bored small-town cops got a "man with a gun" call and overreacted, then tried to cover their embarrassment by throwing the book at the guy.

- Jim

[L8RG8R]

Running a license plate does not tell you whether the owner of the car has a CHL...

Really?

[BrassMonkey]

Don;t see hwo it would be possible. CHL is tied to your DL. How do you know the DL number of a driver?

Running a license plate does not tell you whether the owner of the car has a CHL...

Really?

[seamusTX]

Ditto.

- Jim

[Crossfire]

Running a license plate does not tell you whether the owner of the car has a CHL...

Really?

Really, really

[L8RG8R]

I stand corrected

Great site BTW...I have learned LOADS. lol

[Hoppes]

Ditto.

- Jim

I agree with Jim and BrassMonkey. When the LEO runs a license, they are running the license of the vehicle usually, not the DL number. That will obviously come later if the LEO decides.

To me, it is just common sense that the LEO(s) doesn't know who is in the car driving. Suppose it just got stolen about fifteen minutes earlier and the owner had not reported it stolen yet. How is the LEO supposed to know who is driving the car until he or she gets a DL and runs it?

What is common is for the LEO to request some or all of the following information plus additional information if he or she so deems necessary.

10-27 Driver's License Information

10-28 Vehicle Registration Information

10-29 Check Records For Wanted

I wouldn't think you would do a 10-27 or a 10-29 until you had the driver's license information in your hand. I think a 10-28 is done with the vehicle license number. Isn't that correct Jim?

So there is no way a LEO might know if the person they stopped is the rightful owner or has a concealed handgun license until they get complete information.

Last year, there was a guy in Ohio that was charged with a felony for unlawfully carry of a weapon (UCW) last year about this time but the guy was lawfully carrying per permit rules and had a permit. There is a link to that story below. I cannot verify the accuracy of all details. It illustrates what we are talking about on this thread. The police in a small town busted a guy who was legally carrying and tried their best to send him up the river. The question of when the LEOs knew the guy had a concealed handgun permit is at question according to the story and the follow up responses.

URL Link:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1643861/posts

Open Carry Leads To Felony Traffic Stop; Suspended License
http://www.ohioccw.org ^ | 6 4 06 | Jeff Garvas

Posted on 06/05/2006 2:07:09 PM PDT by freepatriot32

There ought to be a way for police to identify someone who is legally carrying, but even if there was a sticker on the vehicle, they still do not know if it is the guy are girl who owns the vehicle when they make the initial traffic stop.

I don't have an easy answer to this question because there are so many variables one must consider. I suppose that one criminal lawyer's tag line in San Marcos, Texas goes a long way to understanding any legal matter or manuever:

"You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride."

I am not sure that Texas has the same problems that Ohio might have or had, but it is good to be careful in any case. Go see your lawyer and get all the facts. Be prepared to handle such a situation if necessary. But do remember, practice your civil rights - the right to remain silent. If the state, county, or city officials don't have any volunteered information it is hard to break a presumption right? One thing is for certain, we do not know the exact details of either case. I do have strong suspicion that Jim is right - probably small town LEO(s) looking for a big town bust at an innocent citizen's cost in time, cost, and reputation. Many towns and cities are trying to set fiream rules and in Texas this is a no no under many circumstances, but not all. Sure a city can restrict firearm discharge in the city, and some other things, but I see them going beyond muncipal jurisdiction or authority to try to regulate firearms in many cases.

If you get a chance to read that story above, can you tell me how you would have exited the vehicle? What do you think about the driver's exit method?

Hoppes

[para driver]

Running a license plate does not tell you whether the owner of the car has a CHL, and in any case the person driving may not be the owner.

My experience is 180 from the above. In 2004 I was pulled over in Plano, and even though my CHL was lapsed I presented it to the officer as he approached the car, out of courtesy and my wish for 'no surprises'. The officer stated he KNEW about the CHL before my wheels ever stopped.

I believe, all officers PRESUME the occupants are armed as a matter of fact, probably good survival training.

[seamusTX]

I wouldn't think you would do a 10-27 or a 10-29 until you had the driver's license information in your hand. I think a 10-28 is done with the vehicle license number. Isn't that correct Jim?

Thanks for asking, but I don't know.

I know that running the vehicle plate number doesn't show whether the owner has a CHL because a peace officer whom I believe told me. I don't know anything about the police terminology or procedures.

This issue was debated in one of the states that legalized concealed carry a year or two ago. Some police officials wanted CHL status linked to the vehicle plate number. Opponents pointed out that the driver could be the owner's spouse, minor child, employee, or any other person who did not have a CHL. They won the debate.

If you get a chance to read that story above, can you tell me how you would have exited the vehicle? What do you think about the driver's exit method?

It's difficult to say without knowing all the circumstances.

My best guess is that I would have rolled the window down and put my hands out, palms open, when I saw weapons. Then, if they wanted me out, they could open the door.

I'm kind of old for contortions.

- Jim

[seamusTX]

My experience is 180 from the above. In 2004 I was pulled over in Plano, and even though my CHL was lapsed I presented it to the officer as he approached the car, out of courtesy and my wish for 'no surprises'. The officer stated he KNEW about the CHL before my wheels ever stopped.

I remember you writing about that earlier.

I don't know how the officer would have known. He was not necessarily telling you the truth. It is a well-established matter of law that the police can lie to people who are under suspicion.

Now, I know a guy who has a sign on his vehicle that says "concealed handgun instructor" and wears a hat with the same. In that case, it would be a safe guess.

- Jim