The Background Check

craig_o · Post by **craig_o** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:58 am

First off, I have never been arrested. I am not chemically dependant nor addicted. I did go to an inpatient facility for alcohol/depression, but that was of my own will and NOT because the state directed me to do or really had any knowledge of. Considering that, do I even have to mention it? Is it an automatic disqualifier based on how long is has or hasn't been since that happened?

First of all I don't want to hide anything. I just want to know if my chances of being denied are high or moderately high or whatever and I should wait a while to apply because I really don't want to waste $140.00. If you have any experience or your friend's friend happened to have a similar story, feel free to PM me if privacy is a factor.

longtooth · Post by **longtooth** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:02 am

I do not have your answer but one of our instructors will be along to help you. Welcome aboard.

txinvestigator · Post by **txinvestigator** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:11 am

here be the law;

texas Government Code 411.172

(d) For purposes of Subsection (a)(7), a person is incapable
of exercising sound judgment with respect to the proper use and
storage of a handgun if the person:
(1) has been diagnosed by a licensed physician as
suffering from a psychiatric disorder or condition that causes or
is likely to cause substantial impairment in judgment, mood,
perception, impulse control, or intellectual ability;
(2) suffers from a psychiatric disorder or condition
described by Subdivision (1) that:
(A) is in remission but is reasonably likely to
redevelop at a future time; or
(B) requires continuous medical treatment to
avoid redevelopment;
(3) has been diagnosed by a licensed physician or
declared by a court to be incompetent to manage the person's own
affairs

(e) The following constitutes evidence that a person has a
psychiatric disorder or condition described by Subsection (d)(1):
(1) involuntary psychiatric hospitalization in the
preceding five-year period;
(2) psychiatric hospitalization in the preceding
two-year period;
(3) inpatient or residential substance abuse
treatment in the preceding five-year period;
(4) diagnosis in the preceding five-year period by a
licensed physician that the person is dependent on alcohol, a
controlled substance, or a similar substance; or
(5) diagnosis at any time by a licensed physician that
the person suffers or has suffered from a psychiatric disorder or
condition consisting of or relating to:
(A) schizophrenia or delusional disorder;
(B) bipolar disorder;
(C) chronic dementia, whether caused by illness,
brain defect, or brain injury;
(D) dissociative identity disorder;
(E) intermittent explosive disorder; or
(F) antisocial personality disorder.
(f) Notwithstanding Subsection (d), a person who has
previously been diagnosed as suffering from a psychiatric disorder
or condition described by Subsection (d) or listed in Subsection
(e) is not because of that disorder or condition incapable of
exercising sound judgment with respect to the proper use and
storage of a handgun if the person provides the department with a
certificate from a licensed physician whose primary practice is in
the field of psychiatry stating that the psychiatric disorder or
condition is in remission and is not reasonably likely to develop at
a future time.

craig_o · Post by **craig_o** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:39 am

Ok, so I fall under some of that. What happens if I disclose? Are there any exceptions/waivers?

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:43 am

Question 18 on the application says,

Indicate any history during the preceding five years, of treatment received by, commitment to, or residence in:
1) a drug or alcohol treatment center licenced to provide drug or alcohol treatment under the laws of this state or another state; or
b) a psychiatric hospital
Please provide letter from pysician for current status of treatment

My take on this is that if it was more than five years ago, you're completely in the clear and don't have to disclose it.

It is possible to get a CHL if you can get a letter from a physician saying that you are "cured." One brave forum member posted about that.

- Jim

Post by **Skiprr** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:48 am

But if it falls within the five-year period, then yeah, you have to disclose.

craig_o · Post by **craig_o** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:02 am

LoL, as usual I missed the fine print. I could get such a letter from a psychiatrist/substance abuse specialist stating that I'm not crazy, violent or otherwise a social liability. It sounds like, even though they don't exactly write it in 36 point bold font, such a letter in conjunction with honesty and a clean legal history gives me a pretty good shot.

It's almost funny that I can buy a gun passing with flying colors from NCIS but Texas CHL is trickier.

I'm shocked as to how they could access my medical records in the first place... how in the world do they even FIND them?

stevie_d_64 · Post by **stevie_d_64** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:04 am

(e) The following constitutes evidence that a person has a
psychiatric disorder or condition described by Subsection (d)(1):
(1) involuntary psychiatric hospitalization in the
preceding five-year period;

Since you placed yourself (voluntarily) in a rehab facility, I'm not sure even this is applicable per this section...

And unless the physician diagnosed you as something specific within section (5)(A)-(F)...Your "depression" could be considered non-specific, and also not applicable...

As far as disclosing this information in your packet you send to Austin...

Getting a letter from the doctor that helped you, stating dates that you were under his/her direct care at this facility, and contact information I believe would be sufficient...

Better to give them this information, than for them to find out and reject the application due to non-disclosure...Failure to disclose potentially rejectionable data is a good way for you to not be able to apply again, ever...

From what I hear the Austin CHL office folks are pretty amiable, and will work with you if any flags do get raised...

This issue(s) have always been something we've wrestled with for a long time...I have a couple of folks who I know, who have had things they've done in the past, and knowing that its not applicable due to some time factor or severity of the issue, yet when they went ahead and disclosed it, a letter or phone call usually gave the Austin CHL office enough information to go ahead and continue to process and issue the license...

This is just what I have seen happen...

Good luck...

craig_o · Post by **craig_o** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:15 am

(2) psychiatric hospitalization in the preceding
two-year period;
(3) inpatient or residential substance abuse
treatment in the preceding five-year period;

Technically I fall under BOTH of those given the alcohol factor. I'll disclose and put the appropriate letter in the packet as well I suppose?

stevie_d_64 · Post by **stevie_d_64** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:15 am

craig_o wrote:LoL, as usual I missed the fine print. I could get such a letter from a psychiatrist/substance abuse specialist stating that I'm not crazy, violent or otherwise a social liability. It sounds like, even though they don't exactly write it in 36 point bold font, such a letter in conjunction with honesty and a clean legal history gives me a pretty good shot.

Bingo!

It's almost funny that I can buy a gun passing with flying colors from NCIS but Texas CHL is trickier.

Happens all the time...

I'm shocked as to how they could access my medical records in the first place... how in the world do they even FIND them?

How would they know to look???

Thats why I recommend getting a letter from the doctor, make sure they can investigate that, and see what happens...You've made the effort...The burn is on them...

Of course they might not give a flip, but at least you did your part...

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:34 am

craig_o wrote:I'm shocked as to how they could access my medical records in the first place... how in the world do they even FIND them?

I doubt that DPS would find out that you had a voluntary hospitalization if you didn't tell them.

It is possible, though. There are databases of insurance information, and it seems insurance companies can find out your medical history.

This information can be obtained legally after you sign a release. You do sign a release as part of the CHL application. They could interview your mother if they felt like it.

I'm going out on a limb here, but I think it would be a good idea if the letter from your physician included or was similar to the legal language of GC Â§411.173:

Notwithstanding Subsection (d), a person who has previously been diagnosed as suffering from a psychiatric disorder or condition described by Subsection (d) or listed in Subsection (e) is not because of that disorder or condition incapable of exercising sound judgment with respect to the proper use and storage of a handgun if the person provides the department with a certificate from a licensed physician whose primary practice is in the field of psychiatry stating that the psychiatric disorder or condition is in remission and is not reasonably likely to develop at a future time.

This should be turned into a positive statement, "is capable of exercising sound judgment ..."

I am not a lawyer or CHL instructor, so take all this with the usual grain of salt.

P.S.: Good luck.

- Jim

Mark G26 · Post by **Mark G26** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:22 am

Better to give them this information, than for them to find out and reject the application due to non-disclosure...Failure to disclose potentially rejectionable data is a good way for you to not be able to apply again, ever...
This is just what I have seen happen...

Good luck...[/quote]

Where did you get this information?

stevie_d_64 · Post by **stevie_d_64** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:10 am

Mark G26 wrote:Better to give them this information, than for them to find out and reject the application due to non-disclosure...Failure to disclose potentially rejectionable data is a good way for you to not be able to apply again, ever...
This is just what I have seen happen...

Good luck...

Where did you get this information?

This information was in an off-line discussion I had with a couple of instructors, who are also participants here on this website...

I did misunderstand their explanation on the whole never again apply aspect of this issue...

You can re-apply, but its going to be an uphill battle with the folks who are doing the investigation as they are going to want to look at your stuff a little closer...It may take longer as well...That was my fault in not fully understanding that aspect of this...

As I have never personally needed to worry about this in all of my renewals...

I have a couple of friends who are in the process of applying and I have already corrected them on my mistake...But...They are gathering the information they know they are having to disclose, and will submit the packages soon...None of what they have done is a show stopper on the CHL, but they do have to disclose...

I should have said its a good way to keep your future packages (applications) "in-work" for a while instead of you not being able to apply again...

I am very empathetic to the folks in the "Waiting Room", as we are also waiting on a non-res CHP from another state at this time...It may end up taking a year (total) to get that permit...So anything I can do to voice how important it is to dot every "I" and cross every "T", And disclose anything that might raise a flag...I will, and I can certainly correct myself if I err...No skin off my back...

I'm glad you caught that...