Removing Flash Hider and Installing A Suppressor

[Abraham]

Would I be correct: If I remove the flash hider on my AR, I can then use the exposed threads to install a suppressor? Or will an adapter of some sort be required?

Plus, where pistols are concerned, if say I want to install a suppressor on a Glock 19: What's the best way to go? (assuming there is one...) Buy a threaded barrel or have existing barrel threaded by a gun smith?

Thanks!

P.S. These efforts will take place if the H.P.A. is passed.

[cmgee67]

Yes put your gun in vice or secure it someway and take a crescent wrench and back the flash hider off then you can either screw on your suppressor or put a muzzle brake or adapter on. Also buy a threaded barrel for you glock.

[C-dub]

Isn't there some kind of issue doing this with a 14.5" barrel that has the flash hider pinned on? Seems to me like one would be creating an SBR.

[TreyHouston]

I did not know the answer but i see it as a reason to buy more gun parts!!

[LabRat]

Isn't there some kind of issue doing this with a 14.5" barrel that has the flash hider pinned on? Seems to me like one would be creating an SBR.

I agree. I have a POF .308 with a 16" barrel length....but that includes a 2.5" pinned muzzle-brake.
If I remove that pinned brake, then I've got an assembled rifle with a barrel shorter than the 16" specification; an SBR.

Not sure I want to go that route without all the NFA documents ticked and tied.

LabRat

[The Annoyed Man]

Isn't there some kind of issue doing this with a 14.5" barrel that has the flash hider pinned on? Seems to me like one would be creating an SBR.

....unless the can were pinned and welded to the barrel maybe. But I don't know if one can actually remove a pinned/welded flash hider without damaging the barrel. Also, once you have the 14.5" barrel in hand with the flash hider removed, there is the question of whether or not you are in constructive possession of something unlawful UNLESS you either also own an AR pistol, OR you already have an ATF stamp for an SBR.

[SigM4]

Isn't there some kind of issue doing this with a 14.5" barrel that has the flash hider pinned on? Seems to me like one would be creating an SBR.

I agree. I have a POF .308 with a 16" barrel length....but that includes a 2.5" pinned muzzle-brake.
If I remove that pinned brake, then I've got an assembled rifle with a barrel shorter than the 16" specification; an SBR.

Not sure I want to go that route without all the NFA documents ticked and tied.

LabRat

Well you wouldn't be removing the muzzle brake unless you have a host of tools that the average individual doesn't have. Pinned and welded brakes can be removed, but it requires a gunsmith with the right experience and ability. That said if he were removing the original brake he could just as easily pin on a new brake that was appropriate for the can (assuming it would get you to 16") and then you'd be in business without the NFA fears.

[Abraham]

SigM4,

I've watched a few utube videos with the flash hider being removed off an AR with a 3/4" wrench with the rifle barrel firmly but carefully situated in a vise.

Seemed pretty simple and no specialty tools required.

Why would a muzzle brake be different?

Mind you, I'm not debating, just seeking greater information.

Thanks!

[TreyHouston]

Perhaps theis is the same question as above. If the break can be unscrewed and removed and a suppressor can be screwed on and removed what is the difference in overall links if the suppressor is attached? More simply without either the barrel is 14 inches for example . If a suppressor is installed doesn't that add to the length of the barrel? That's making it legal? And not a SBR?

[The Annoyed Man]

SigM4,

I've watched a few utube videos with the flash hider being removed off an AR with a 3/4" wrench with the rifle barrel firmly but carefully situated in a vise.

Seemed pretty simple and no specialty tools required.

Why would a muzzle brake be different?

Mind you, I'm not debating, just seeking greater information.

Thanks!

Some flash-hiders and all muzzle-brakes have to be timed to the barrel......meaning that they are designed to expel the gases in specific directions - directly upwards, or off at 90º relative to the bore, for instance. So that means that when you purchase one, it will sometimes come with a series of steel shim-washers that are used to correctly position the muzzle device as you tighten it up against the barrel shoulder...... if that makes sense.

For instance, the Griffin Armaments taper mount muzzle-brake that AndyC and I (and others) use for our Form 1 home built cans has two ports on either side that are designed to blow gas out horizontally at 90º to the direction of the bore. So when mounting the device, the included shims have to added or removed accordingly so that once the device is tightened to spec, the ports are directing the gases horizontally, instead of off-kilter. That may mean that you have to mount/dismount/remount the brake 2 or 3 times in order to get the timing right. It's not hard to do, but it requires some patience.

Here is a picture of the Griffin taper mount, and you will be able to see why the timing relative to the barrel is important:


Now, some flash-hider suppressor mounts are immune to timing, and it really doesn't matter where the gases are venting, so long as the device is properly torqued to the barrel. My ACC 762-SDN-6 suppressor mounts to the rifle by means of a 51 tooth flash hider that has three prongs. It doesn't matter where the prongs are located relative to the direction of the bore when the flash-hider is mounted, because the 3 prongs are equidistant from one another and so the expelling of gases equidistant too, which means that it has no directional effect on the muzzle at the time the bullet exits.......or more accurately perhaps, it acts on the muzzle in ALL directions simultaneously, so the effect is cancelled. And, it is a pretty effective flashhider too when the can is not mounted. The suppressor is retained by a ratchet against the teeth on the flash-hider.

Here is a picture of the AAC 51T flash-hider mount, and you will be able to see why the timing relative to the barrel is irrelevant:


If you asked me which kind of device I prefer, well, I'd say that for the riffles I have the brake on, I prefer the brake. For the rifles I have the flashhider on, I prefer the flashhider.

Other manufacturers offer systems similar to Griffin's and AAC's.

[SigM4]

SigM4,

I've watched a few utube videos with the flash hider being removed off an AR with a 3/4" wrench with the rifle barrel firmly but carefully situated in a vise.

Seemed pretty simple and no specialty tools required.

Why would a muzzle brake be different?

Mind you, I'm not debating, just seeking greater information.

Thanks!

TAM's post is a good one and explains many of the differences between brakes and flash hiders and their installation.

My comments above though were directed towards LabRat's situation where the muzzle brake is included as part of the overall length of his barrel (sorry I should have been more clear that I was just addressing his situation and not the question in the OP). In order for the MB/FH (muzzle brake or flash hider) to count toward the overall barrel length it must be permanently installed (i.e. it can't be screwed on/off as you reference). This is most commonly done by pinning and welding the MB/FH to the barrel (see example video below), thus rendering it a permanent fixture.

https://youtu.be/6481wrWIW2w

This is often the case with guns that have barrels in the ~14.5" range, the pinned and welded MB/FH thus brings the overall length of the barrel to just over the required 16". On a gun with a 16"+ barrel before the MB/FH (as you're most likely referencing Abraham) the ability to remove the MB/FH is of no consequence as it doesn't count to the overall length.

As you note with a standard MB/FH installation on a 16"+ barrel the removal/re-install is pretty straight forward. Just a unique situation when you're trying to use the MB/FH as a contributor to overall barrel length. Depending on what your barrel length is you should be able to remove your MB/FH and install a suppressor via either direct thread, or a new QD type MB/FH that works with the specific can you choose.

[SigM4]

Perhaps theis is the same question as above. If the break can be unscrewed and removed and a suppressor can be screwed on and removed what is the difference in overall links if the suppressor is attached? More simply without either the barrel is 14 inches for example . If a suppressor is installed doesn't that add to the length of the barrel? That's making it legal? And not a SBR?

It all has to do with the overall barrel length without the muzzle brake or flash hider (MB/FH). If the barrel length without these is 16" or more, it doesn't matter, you can swap out to your hearts content, be it a MB/FH or a suppressor. When a MB/FH or suppressor can be screwed on/off freely the ATF doesn't consider it as contributing to the overall length of the barrel.

However, if the overall length of the barrel before a MB/FH is less than 16" you can rectify it in two ways. One you can register it as an SBR and get a tax stamp for it, or two you can permanently attach something (MB/FH, even a suppressor) to the barrel that brings the length beyond the 16" requirement. At that point the ATF does consider it part of the overall length of the barrel since it cannot be (easily) removed. See the video I posted above for a more thorough explanation, along with examples.

Hope that helps. The world of the ATF and NFA requirements is messy and at times almost counterintuitive, but it's what we got.

[TreyHouston]

Perhaps theis is the same question as above. If the break can be unscrewed and removed and a suppressor can be screwed on and removed what is the difference in overall links if the suppressor is attached? More simply without either the barrel is 14 inches for example . If a suppressor is installed doesn't that add to the length of the barrel? That's making it legal? And not a SBR?

It all has to do with the overall barrel length without the muzzle brake or flash hider (MB/FH). If the barrel length without these is 16" or more, it doesn't matter, you can swap out to your hearts content, be it a MB/FH or a suppressor. When a MB/FH or suppressor can be screwed on/off freely the ATF doesn't consider it as contributing to the overall length of the barrel.

However, if the overall length of the barrel before a MB/FH is less than 16" you can rectify it in two ways. One you can register it as an SBR and get a tax stamp for it, or two you can permanently attach something (MB/FH, even a suppressor) to the barrel that brings the length beyond the 16" requirement. At that point the ATF does consider it part of the overall length of the barrel since it cannot be (easily) removed. See the video I posted above for a more thorough explanation, along with examples.

Hope that helps. The world of the ATF and NFA requirements is messy and at times almost counterintuitive, but it's what we got.

Oh! So you can get a SBR barrel and a supressor and have a smith tack it on to be 16 in. Thats a great idea!

[SigM4]

Oh! So you can get a SBR barrel and a supressor and have a smith tack it on to be 16 in. Thats a great idea!

Absolutely. I've thought about building a dedicated HD rifle in 5.56 with about a 8.5-9" barrel and a lower end can (such as a Radical Firearms) pinned and welded onto it just to avoid the tax stamp issue, especially if the HPA passes.