Problematic 06/07 Posting

[jmorris]

This is the entrance to the Bracken Cafe in Selma, Tx. Would you carry into here?



The problem is that Bracken Cafe is NOT posted. The cafe occupies about 1/3 of this building, the rest belongs to Retama Park Race Track (horse racing). They ARE posted. You turn left instead of going into the cafe and you're at their offices. Unfortantly the restrooms are in this area. Too bad there's no way to enter "businesses that look like they're posted but really aren't" into texas3006.com.

I asked a waitress about this and she assured me that it didn't apply to the cafe. As she stated it " no! Even the boss carries!". I wanted to ask him if he ever though about putting up an anti-sign, something like "06/07 does not apply to Bracken Cafe", but they were too busy for me to talk to him.

[ScottDLS]

Sounds like the property owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner gave you permission to be on the property (of the cafe) while carrying a handgun under the authority of your LTC. But do you want to risk "taking the ride" for a $200 class C citation? What if there is a anti-gun cop and ADA somewhere in the county?

[nightmare69]

On a questionable posting like that, concealed means concealed.

[JustSomeOldGuy]

Isn't the Cafe ON racetrack property?

[jmorris]

Isn't the Cafe ON racetrack property?

Yes it is. The problem is that the cafe will tell people that the posting does not apply to the cafe.

[Abraham]

If a business is posted or seems to be, I have no problem with that.

I just do business elsewhere.

Problem solved, ah, unless it's a hospital, but you get my drift...

[Pariah3j]

I would say you were given verbal authorization, which I believe trumps the signs anyways. However, IANAL and don't even play one on TV.

[oljames3]

Am I missing something here? Doesn't PC 46.03 (a) (4) trump all and prohibit "a firearm ... on the premises of a racetrack"?
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.46.htm
Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless:
(A) pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution; or
(B) the person possesses or goes with a concealed handgun that the person is licensed to carry under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and no other weapon to which this section applies, on the premises of an institution of higher education or private or independent institution of higher education, on any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by the institution is being conducted, or in a passenger transportation vehicle of the institution;
(2) on the premises of a polling place on the day of an election or while early voting is in progress;
(3) on the premises of any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court;
(4) on the premises of a racetrack;

[ScottDLS]

Am I missing something here? Doesn't PC 46.03 (a) (4) trump all and prohibit "a firearm ... on the premises of a racetrack"?
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.46.htm
Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless:
(A) pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution; or
(B) the person possesses or goes with a concealed handgun that the person is licensed to carry under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and no other weapon to which this section applies, on the premises of an institution of higher education or private or independent institution of higher education, on any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by the institution is being conducted, or in a passenger transportation vehicle of the institution;
(2) on the premises of a polling place on the day of an election or while early voting is in progress;
(3) on the premises of any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court;
(4) on the premises of a racetrack;

Is the cafe on the "premises" (building or portion of a building) of the racetrack? Is the tax office in a multi-use county building on the "premises" of offices utilized by the Court?

[oljames3]

Am I missing something here? Doesn't PC 46.03 (a) (4) trump all and prohibit "a firearm ... on the premises of a racetrack"?
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.46.htm
Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless:
(A) pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution; or
(B) the person possesses or goes with a concealed handgun that the person is licensed to carry under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and no other weapon to which this section applies, on the premises of an institution of higher education or private or independent institution of higher education, on any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by the institution is being conducted, or in a passenger transportation vehicle of the institution;
(2) on the premises of a polling place on the day of an election or while early voting is in progress;
(3) on the premises of any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court;
(4) on the premises of a racetrack;

Is the cafe on the "premises" (building or portion of a building) of the racetrack? Is the tax office in a multi-use county building on the "premises" of offices utilized by the Court?

The OP reported that the cafe is, indeed, in the premises of the racetrack.

Isn't the Cafe ON racetrack property?

Yes it is. The problem is that the cafe will tell people that the posting does not apply to the cafe.

[Soccerdad1995]

Am I missing something here? Doesn't PC 46.03 (a) (4) trump all and prohibit "a firearm ... on the premises of a racetrack"?
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.46.htm
Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless:
(A) pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution; or
(B) the person possesses or goes with a concealed handgun that the person is licensed to carry under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and no other weapon to which this section applies, on the premises of an institution of higher education or private or independent institution of higher education, on any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by the institution is being conducted, or in a passenger transportation vehicle of the institution;
(2) on the premises of a polling place on the day of an election or while early voting is in progress;
(3) on the premises of any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court;
(4) on the premises of a racetrack;

Is the cafe on the "premises" (building or portion of a building) of the racetrack? Is the tax office in a multi-use county building on the "premises" of offices utilized by the Court?

The OP reported that the cafe is, indeed, in the premises of the racetrack.

Isn't the Cafe ON racetrack property?

Yes it is. The problem is that the cafe will tell people that the posting does not apply to the cafe.

But the OP also said he was told that the café owner carries in that café. So while that portion of the building may be owned by the company that owns the racetrack (on racetrack property), it sounds it might be leased to a separate business and not operated as part of the racetrack.

[C-dub]

Remember folks, different rules apply to the owner of an establishment versus another when it comes to carrying a firearm at that establishment. IIRC

[apostate]

Are offices for a company that operates a racetrack off limits as a racetrack? Are school administrative buildings off limits as a school? Is the tax office off limits if it's in the same building as the court?

P.S. What part of "shall not be infringed" do government dimwits not understand?

[Soccerdad1995]

Remember folks, different rules apply to the owner of an establishment versus another when it comes to carrying a firearm at that establishment. IIRC

I understand that, but in this case, I'm assuming that the café owner does not own the racetrack. So could he (or she) carry on the premises of a racetrack just because they are leasing a portion of a building for their café? Or, would the fact that it is leased to, and controlled by, someone other than the racetrack mean that this portion of the building does not meet the definition of "premises of a racetrack"?

[C-dub]

Are offices for a company that operates a racetrack off limits as a racetrack? Are school administrative buildings off limits as a school? Is the tax office off limits if it's in the same building as the court?

P.S. What part of "shall not be infringed" do government dimwits not understand?

Unfortunately, I think the courts have ruled that the administrative buildings that are NOT a school are also included in the off limits places as a school because they belong to the school district. It's weird, I know.