51% rules

skip · Post by **skip** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:41 am

Something that I have been trying to get an answer on, If I am not mistaking, bars, (behind the bar) can have a weapon for protection. But me as a corp manager cannot legally carry one on my person with my CHL, as I go from one Pub to the next, we have 2 that sell over 51% and 1 that the magority is food. What am I missing here in my thought process? Skip

Dan20703 · Post by **Dan20703** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:14 am

My guess would be that the "over 51%" establishments were assumed to be a higher risk for confrontations to erupt. Carrying and drinking don't mix well even when you are not the one drinking.

Some of the wildest (dumbest) things occur when alcohol is involved.

bauerdj · Post by **bauerdj** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:27 am

I may be wrong on this but if you are considered to be the owner or "in control" of the 51% locations that would covr you while carrying there snd your CHL would cover you while in transit and at the non 51% location.

Dave B.

Dan20703 · Post by **Dan20703** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:03 am

Dan20703 wrote:My guess would be that the "over 51%" establishments were assumed to be a higher risk for confrontations to erupt. Carrying and drinking don't mix well even when you are not the one drinking.

Some of the wildest (dumbest) things occur when alcohol is involved.

I suppose if I would have read the original statement/question more clearly I would have answered differently. I think as bauerdj mentioned, you are looked upon as an "owner" and thus allowed to carry.

txinvestigator · Post by **txinvestigator** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:32 am

Lets look at the law;

Texas Penal Code
Â§ 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER. (b) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the
license holder's person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or
license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic
Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its
income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for
on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic
Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;

It is clear that you cannot carry in a 51% establishment under the authority of your CHL.

Â§ 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits
an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on
or about his person a handgun, illegal knife, or club.
(b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under
this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third
degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or
issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages.

Above is the general prohibition in the law of carrying a handgun on or about your person. The penalty is enhanced if you carry in a placed licensed to sell alcohol.

However, there are times when that law does not apply to a person;

Â§ 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY

(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:

(2) is on the person's own premises or premises under
the person's control

(8) holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or
is an employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or
license if the person is supervising the operation of the permitted
or licensed premises.

If you meet either of these then you are NOT prohibited from carrying in the bar or other licensed premises. In that case you are not carrying under the authority of your CHL, but you are carrying under 46.15.

Once you leave to head to another place, you are then carrying under the authority of your CHL.

Hope this clarifies it.

skip · Post by **skip** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:20 pm

Thanks that is what I was looking for, when I called DPS, they just kept saying no, but I knew there was something I was missing. When I am in one of our pubs, I am in a Management roll. Thanks Skip

srothstein · Post by **srothstein** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:53 pm

Skip,

Before you carry and get yourself into trouble, you need to check the TABC rules on it too. Is the permit in the name of the corporation or the local bar? Some places create a different wholly owned subsidiary corporation or LLC for each license. This helps protect the overall company from liability, before someone asks why. Also true for out of state corporations who cannot legally have a Texas permit (see Wal-Mart as one example).

TABC rules say the permittee or his employee is allowed to carry. If you are a corporate employee and not an employee of the name on the permit, you are unlawfully carrying, as I understand the rules.

Post by **Crossfire** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:05 pm

Good thing I'm not a lawyer. This whole thing is making my head hurt.

txinvestigator · Post by **txinvestigator** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:21 pm

srothstein wrote: TABC rules say the permittee or his employee is allowed to carry. If you are a corporate employee and not an employee of the name on the permit, you are unlawfully carrying, as I understand the rules.

Interesting. So he would be violating TABC code, but not the Penal Code?

cool

KBCraig · Post by **KBCraig** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:30 pm

The state should never presume to dictate the rules on private property. Whether it's bars, churches, hospitals, or schools, it's not the state's business if people carry guns there. It's the business of the property owner(s), and no one else.

skip · Post by **skip** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:14 pm

Good idea, I didnt think to check with TABC also, you guys are really helpfull, I appreciate ya'll taking the time to help me figure this out. oh yeah, I am flying up to Dallas in the morning to look at a Double Decker bus for us to use as a promo tool for our Pubs, so if ya'll see a big ol bus doing 45 mph (blocking the right lane i'm sure) headed south on 35 saturday.......DONT SHOOT..it's me. Thanks Skip

Photoman · Post by **Photoman** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:17 pm

KBCraig wrote:The state should never presume to dictate the rules on private property. Whether it's bars, churches, hospitals, or schools, it's not the state's business if people carry guns there. It's the business of the property owner(s), and no one else.

Sounds like you and I live in the same dream world KB.

srothstein · Post by **srothstein** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:49 pm

txinvestigator wrote:
srothstein wrote: TABC rules say the permittee or his employee is allowed to carry. If you are a corporate employee and not an employee of the name on the permit, you are unlawfully carrying, as I understand the rules.
Interesting. So he would be violating TABC code, but not the Penal Code?

cool

I think in this case, the rules are used to clarify the application of the Penal Code exemption for bar owners and employees in charge.

srothstein · Post by **srothstein** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:49 pm

Photoman wrote:
KBCraig wrote:The state should never presume to dictate the rules on private property. Whether it's bars, churches, hospitals, or schools, it's not the state's business if people carry guns there. It's the business of the property owner(s), and no one else.

Sounds like you and I live in the same dream world KB.

+!