An 1815 Question

[mr surveyor]

This is a question about 1815 that's been bugging me. The way I understand the legislation, one has the right to carry a handgun in their home, automobile (under their control), place of business (with some responsible control of same) and other property under their control. If something is incorrect with the preceding statement, please correct me. With that said, my question pertains to an event such as a routine traffic stop for something like a burned out license plate light or such. If the person is carrying on their peson under 1815, i.e. a non-CHL holder, and is asked by the officer to step out of the car, should the person then inform the officer that he/she is armed to avoid violating 1815 by exiting the vehicle and being guilty of unlawful carry in a place not specified in 1815? Will the question of whether or not the person is carrying a weapon become the first question asked by all LEOs for any or all traffic stops? Would the person be guilty of an infraction if they exited their vehicle at the officer's request on the side of a public street/highway while having a handgun on their person?

I'm wondering how all this is going to shake out.

[seamusTX]

All of your initial assertions are correct.

In my opinion (not being a lawyer), a person carrying a concealed handgun would be in violation of PC 46.02 if they got out of the vehicle on a public road.

Unholstering while a peace officer was approaching your vehicle could have negative consequences.

Therefore, it seems reasonable for a person carrying under the provisions of PC 46.02 as modified by HB 1815 to conceal the weapon somewhere in the vehicle, not on their person.

Again, in my opinion, I think it would be bad idea to inform the officer that you are carrying. The law does not obligate you to do so, and it could be viewed as a threat. (However, giving false information is an offense.)

- Jim

[frankie_the_yankee]

If I were carrying in a vehicle per HB1815 I would stash the gun somewhere in the vehicle, not on my person.

But if I did have it on my person and a LEO asked me to step out of the car for any reason, I would simply make a declaration that I was carrying and ask the LEO exactly what it was that they wanted me to do. I would do this with my inside light on and both hands on the steering wheel.

Note that the law itself may be silent about all this. I'm just saying what I would do. I would also answer any questions the LEO might ask about guns, weapons, etc. with full honesty.

Of course for me it's hypothetical because I have a CHL. But if I didn't, I would do what I said above.

I can't see where the LEO would have a problem.

[txinvestigator]

First, obey traffic laws and one is unlikely to find oneself in such a situation.

However, we all know that stuff happens. If an officer orders you from your vehicle, then at that point I would tell him I was legally armed with a gun on my ????.

The thing to remember is if he orders you to do something and you comply, he cannot charge you with a crime as a result of you obeying him.

For example, if a cop is working traffic control at an intersection, and he waves you through a red light, he cannot write you for running a red light.

[srothstein]

I need to disagree with TXI a little on this. A police officer has no authority to tell you to break the law. He can tell you to run a red light because there is a law specifically authorizing him to give instructions when directing traffic and to override the light.

As an example, an officer cannot tell you to go into a store and steal something. Now, there will always be other things to consider, so it is not a real firm and absolute rule.

In the specific case, I would think the courts would rule that you were not breaking the law by lawfully carrying on your person in your car and still having it when you exit as ordered by the police. Given that, I would have to point out that if you are ordered out of the car, in all probability, you are in bigger trouble than just a ticket already, so let him know before you get out to avoid trouble. I think Frankie has the right way to do it. In as non-threatening a manner as possible, let the officer know you are armed and where the gun is and then ask him how he wants you to handle it. Remember that there will be some officers who overreact, so make sure you keep calm when they do. You cannot win on the street, but will in court.

[mr surveyor]

for what it's worth, I have had only two traffic violation stops, both for speeding, both "marginal", and both after I turned 50. The first was shortly after crossing the state line coming back from a rare (for me) trip to Shreveport and "the boats". I won't name the "speed trap", but that's exactly what the entire town must make it's budget from - the local PD writing tickets on I-20. Anyway, the officer asked me to step out of the vehicle. I don't know if he was hoping to smell alcohol (none), or to try my patience with some really ignorant line of questioning like "Sir, do you make it a habit to speed everywhere you go"? To this day, I'm not sure what the deal was, but I was instructed to get out of the vehicle. A couple of other times I have been stopped at night pulling a boat and had a Sheriff's Deputy point out a burned out tail light or license plate light burned out on the trailer - specifically during a couple of time periods of numerous boat and or trailer thefts in the area. Those times I was asked to step out of the vehicle, and to show vehicle and boat papers. In every case I figured it was a courtesy to the officer so that he would not have to stand in traffic while we "visited". Since the S.O. does not do traffic it seemed obvious that the deputy was using any minor trailer light infraction to have just cause to make a stop looking for stolen boats.

So, I have been asked to exit my vehicle a couple of times when there was no reason to think I was in any kind of deeper trouble. Those are the type of situations that came to mind where a non-CHL holder could be put into a possible position of a violation ... or worse.

[saltydog]

if, as previously suggested, the sidearm be concealed within the vehicle as opposed to being on the drivers person, could a passenger be cited for ucw?

after all, the sidearm was within the grasp and in the immediate area of both driver and passenger.

sorry about the puncutation errors, i only have the use of one hand.