Questions on new traveling law

[Renegade]

First, the law:

Section 46.02, Penal Code, is amended by amending Subsection (a) and adding Subsections (a-1) and (a-2) to read as follows:
(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.
(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view; or
(2) the person is:
(A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic;
(B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm;
or
(C) a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01.
(a-2) For purposes of this section, "premises" includes real property and a recreational vehicle that is being used as living quarters, regardless of whether that use is temporary or permanent. In this subsection, "recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle primarily designed as temporary living quarters or a vehicle that contains temporary living quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor vehicle. The term includes a travel trailer, camping trailer, truck camper, motor home, and horse trailer with living quarters.

1) Note (2) says enroute to, not to/from. So does this mean [a non-PO/CHL] you must leave gun in car until you get to your own property or some other lawful place where you can remove it? I say yes.

2) Can a [non-PO/CHL] passenger carry? They are neither the owner nor do they have the key so is the vehicle "under the person's control". I say no.

3) Do CHLs have a duty to inform LEOs? I say no, as they are no longer carrying under CHL law. ETA - Answer is yes, was wrong on this one, see below.

4) Can CHLs bypass 30.06 signs at parking lots? I say yes, as they are no longer carrying under CHL law (gun must stay in car though).

5) Can I [non-PO/CHL] leave my handgun in the factory box on the dashboard? I say yes, while the box is in plain view, the handgun is not.

6) Can you [non-PO/CHL] now carry an illegal knife or club in your car? I say yes.


What do you say? Not asking for wisdom of these acts, just opinion on legality. I think their are some unintended side effects to this law.

ETA:

[non-PO/CHL] added for clarification.

[seamusTX]

I agree with you, more or less. However, what will matter is what DAs, peace officers, and judges think.

DAs will likely issue opinions about these questions this month.

Can I leave my handgun in the factory box on the dashboard?

I think so, but I've always wondered what peace officers think.

BTW, these issues have been discussed at length, mostly under the heading HB 1815.

- Jim

[GrillKing]

3) Do CHLs have a duty to inform LEOs? I say no, as they are no longer carrying under CHL law.

I say yes as the statute (GC411.205) simply states that if you are carrying a handgun and are asked for ID, you must provide your CHL license. There is no differentiation as to under what authority you are carrying the handgun (HB1815, traveling, CHL statutes). If you are carrying and are asked for ID, you must provide your CHL license, even if you say you are carrying under HB1815, IMHO.

Can CHLs bypass 30.06 signs at parking lots? I say yes, as they are no longer carrying under CHL law (gun must stay in car though).

I say maybe, maybe not. If the 30.06 sign ALSO has a ghostbusters on it as well, as many I have seen do, this would, I think invoke 30.05 for HB1815 (and long guns) as well as 30.06 for CHL carry. With no ghostbusters on the 30.06, I don't know, but I guessing it would still stand.

[barres]

As the law reads, it looks like you're right about #1, which stinks for those who live in apartments (as communal property is not under one's own control IIRC).

I say #2 depends. My wife and I are both on the title of our vehicles, therefore she is just as much the owner of the vehicle and can carry without a CHL, even if I am driving.

#3 I would still inform, because, if I have to step out of the vehicle (and I carry on my person) then I am no longer carrying under HB1815, but under authority of my CHL. If I had a handgun in the glove box, though, I might do things differently. But I always carry on my person.

#4 It looks like you're right, but IANAL.

#5 It looks like you're right, but the standard for concealment from GC411.171:(3) is: "Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person. It would be easy to argue (though I don't know if it would hold water, legally) that a reasonable person who saw a box labeled Colt would conclude it likely contained a firearm. I wouldn't push this one, myself.

#6 I agree, this looks to decriminalize carrying an illegal knife or club in your car.

Again, I Am Not A Lawyer, but this is how I understand/interpret these rule changes.

[GrillKing]

Found the statute, don't think HB1815 will negate the requirement to display your CHL, but thta's just my opinion:

GC §411.205.

DISPLAYING LICENSE; PENALTY.

(a) If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license. A person who fails or refuses to display the license and identification as required by this subsection is subject to suspension of the person's license as provided by Section 411.187.

(b) A person commits an offense if the person fails or refuses to display the license and identification as required by Subsection (a) after previously having had the person's license suspended for a violation of that subsection. An offense under this subsection is a Class B misdemeanor.

[Renegade]

3) Do CHLs have a duty to inform LEOs? I say no, as they are no longer carrying under CHL law.

I say yes as the statute (GC411.205) simply states that if you are carrying a handgun and are asked for ID, you must provide your CHL license. There is no differentiation as to under what authority you are carrying the handgun (HB1815, traveling, CHL statutes). If you are carrying and are asked for ID, you must provide your CHL license, even if you say you are carrying under HB1815, IMHO.

Good answer.

§ 411.205. DISPLAYING LICENSE; PENALTY. (a) If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license. A person who fails or refuses to display the license and identification as required by this subsection is subject to suspension of the person's license as provided by Section 411.187.
(b) A person commits an offense if the person fails or refuses to display the license and identification as required by Subsection (a) after previously having had the person's license suspended for a violation of that subsection. An offense under this subsection is a Class B misdemeanor.

Add this to the list of things I have seen Texas Peace Officers (fail to) do and not get held accountable for.

[seamusTX]

3) Do CHLs have a duty to inform LEOs?

Oops, I missed this one.

GC §411.205. DISPLAYING LICENSE; PENALTY. (a) If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.

The law does not say "under the authority" or anything like that.

If you are carrying and asked for identification, you must show your CHL. The penalty for failing to display is suspension of the license. It is also a class B misdemeanor. The police will find out you have a CHL when they run your driver license. Why would anyone take this chance?

- Jim

[GrillKing]

I think you should tell them you are carrying, even if not required, as the chances for a bad experience are lower when you tell than when you don't, in most circumstances.

I have nothing to base that on, just a gut feeling. I'll almost always tell when not required.

[Renegade]

The police will find out you have a CHL when they run your driver license. Why would anyone take this chance?

Agreed.

Not asking for wisdom of these acts, just opinion on legality.

[GrillKing]

Correction: I'll produce the ID, then inform!!

[GrillKing]

As the law reads, it looks like you're right about #1, which stinks for those who live in apartments (as communal property is not under one's own control IIRC).

I say #2 depends. My wife and I are both on the title of our vehicles, therefore she is just as much the owner of the vehicle and can carry without a CHL, even if I am driving.

The problem may be if the privately owned complex has a no guns policy, 30.05 for non-CHL and 30.06 for CHL. If they don't, I think within your apartment and to/from your vehicle is covered, after 1 September.

I agree completely with #2, co-owners would be OK, even in the passenger seat.

[txinvestigator]

3) Do CHLs have a duty to inform LEOs? I say no, as they are no longer carrying under CHL law.

I say yes as the statute (GC411.205) simply states that if you are carrying a handgun and are asked for ID, you must provide your CHL license. There is no differentiation as to under what authority you are carrying the handgun (HB1815, traveling, CHL statutes). If you are carrying and are asked for ID, you must provide your CHL license, even if you say you are carrying under HB1815, IMHO.

Texas Government Code
§ 411.205. DISPLAYING LICENSE; PENALTY. (a) If a
license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license
holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that
the license holder display identification, the license holder shall
display both the license holder's driver's license or
identification certificate issued by the department and the license
holder's handgun license. A person who fails or refuses to display
the license and identification as required by this subsection is
subject to suspension of the person's license as provided by
Section 411.187.

[Renegade]

I say yes as the statute (GC411.205) simply states that if you are carrying a handgun and are asked for ID, you must provide your CHL license. There is no differentiation as to under what authority you are carrying the handgun (HB1815, traveling, CHL statutes). If you are carrying and are asked for ID, you must provide your CHL license, even if you say you are carrying under HB1815, IMHO.

That question was inspired from your GlockTalk/CopTalk post, where you said no duty to ID. Neither one of us read the law before posting; I assumed you were right and did not bother to check...

http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php ... did=738204

[txinvestigator]

I say yes as the statute (GC411.205) simply states that if you are carrying a handgun and are asked for ID, you must provide your CHL license. There is no differentiation as to under what authority you are carrying the handgun (HB1815, traveling, CHL statutes). If you are carrying and are asked for ID, you must provide your CHL license, even if you say you are carrying under HB1815, IMHO.

That question was inspired from your GlockTalk/CopTalk post, where you said no duty to ID. Neither one of us read the law before posting; I assumed you were right and did not bother to check...

http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php ... did=738204

Since the section requiring you to provide your CHL is in the TGC, and not in the penal code and not arrestable, I imagine I could argue successfully that that section applies to CHLers carrying under the authority of the CHL.

If I call the police to my house to file a report, and he asks me for my identifyng information and I am carrying in my own home, must I provide my CHL and ID?

If I work at a gun range, am carrying a handgun openly and file a police report when the cop asks me who I am must I provide my CHL and ID?