Are you a Sheepdog?

TX Rancher · Post by **TX Rancher** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:10 pm

Edited

shaggydog · Post by **shaggydog** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:17 pm

My fervent wish is that I might be able to live up to my euphemistic screen name.

Good post Tx Rancher.

WarHawk-AVG · Post by **WarHawk-AVG** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:25 pm

Being a former Marine I can tell you this

NONE of our armed forces are "drawn to the sounds of gunfire" for the reason of excitement, we are drawn to it as a sense of duty and honor for if we fail in our duties our buddies die.

Courage is being scared to death... and saddling up anyway. ~John Wayne

Even Carlos Hathcock didn't cherish all his confirmed kills, he saw it as saving his buddies..pure and simple

A "sheepdog" is one that chooses to take up the tool of the wolves in defense of himself and his lovedones, and to many military personnel who took the oath to protect the Constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic they chose to step it up a knotch

Sheep in this description is the common unarmed masses, "sheeple" are those sheep that see the sheepdogs as dangerous as the wolves as they cry "baaaaaaaad, baaaaaaad things" while trying to disarm the sheepdogs

And like it says in his writeup, sheep choose to pretend wolves don't exist but when they do show, the sheep/sheeple cry out for us sheepdogs, unfortunately she sheepdogs might now always be present, thus its up to us sheepdogs (in sheep clothing) to be ready to protect ourselves and our loved ones at a moments notice

WOW I didn't realize that people havent seen this before...I figured every red blooded American has seen it at one time or another

For those that havent....here is the link

On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs - Dave Grossman

Post by **Skiprr** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:46 pm

Molon-labe: We've seen it before. Even I posted it before on this Forum.

But you know what? Every time it's posted it re-centers awareness, it commands attention, it demands self-searching. All CHL holders need to address these issues.

My thanks to TX Rancher and you.

For those interested, the author referenced is L. Col. Dave Grossman. Search Amazon for "David Grossman" and you should find his work. I have two: On Combat, and On Killing.

phddan · Post by **phddan** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:52 pm

Nowadays they call it being a sheep dog.

Use to be, they called it being a man.

Dan

WarHawk-AVG · Post by **WarHawk-AVG** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:16 pm

phddan wrote:Nowadays they call it being a sheep dog.

Use to be, they called it being a man.

Dan

Horrah for the PC crowd!

BShook · Post by **BShook** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:26 pm

Excellent article, thanks.

308nato · Post by **308nato** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:36 pm

Good post ,I enjoyed reading it again as it helps to keep this old mind
aware of whats going on around you and be ready to protect yourself
and loved ones.

Stupid · Post by **Stupid** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:14 pm

I am a dog all right, not to protect sheep though.

Nowadays, there's not much difference between sheepdog and criminals. In many people's mind, they are the same.

WarHawk-AVG · Post by **WarHawk-AVG** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:27 pm

Stupid wrote:I am a dog all right, not to protect sheep though.

Nowadays, there's not much difference between sheepdog and criminals. In many people's mind, they are the same.

follow up to above link...it helps to have good analogies onhand (the above link explains the sheepdog mentality, this one explains the "sheeple" mentality, and why its still our responsibility as sheepdog even though shunned to remain sheepdog no matter the cost)

The Parable of the Sheep

Liberty · Post by **Liberty** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:49 pm

Molon_labe wrote:
Stupid wrote:I am a dog all right, not to protect sheep though.

Nowadays, there's not much difference between sheepdog and criminals. In many people's mind, they are the same.
follow up to above link...it helps to have good analogies onhand (the above link explains the sheepdog mentality, this one explains the "sheeple" mentality, and why its still our responsibility as sheepdog even though shunned to remain sheepdog no matter the cost)

The Parable of the Sheep

I am another one who isn't crazy about the sheepdog parable as it refers to CHL holders. Most of us here have stated at one point or another that we do not consider ourselves to be protectors of the the sheep. We as CHL holders are not trained soldiers cops, firefighters or designated protectors of the hood. I find the suggestion that the we as CHL holders are anointed to be the protectors of the herd is a little scary. I just have these images of Joe CHLer with badge on running around the neighborhood looking to rescue his percieved sheeple. I do hope that every one of us be aware of the "cost" if called upon to use deadly force.

Sometimes the dog is ferral, and more dangerous to the sheep than the wolf

Tote 9 · Post by **Tote 9** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:21 pm

I agree Liberty, I got my CHL for the purpose of protecting
my family and myself. I am never without my gun and I don't
go around looking for a reason to use it , Although I would not
hesitate to help someone else if their life was in danger.

GlockenHammer · Post by **GlockenHammer** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 12:54 am

I do not yet know what God's purpose for me is on this planet. But I do know that I am willing to help my fellow man in many ways. As a firefighter, I will even risk my life to save a stranger. I do not know if I will ever be in a position to use my skill and ability with a gun for any purpose, but I do not rule out the possibility that it may be for someone I do not know. Just as I know the dangers of a burning building, so too am I aware of the dangers of getting involved in a violent conflict where I am not a primary participant (e.g, defending myself and/or family).

I just pray that in my time of truth, whatever that situation is, that I will do the Right thing.

Liberty · Post by **Liberty** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:30 am

GlockenHammer wrote:I do not yet know what God's purpose for me is on this planet. But I do know that I am willing to help my fellow man in many ways. As a firefighter, I will even risk my life to save a stranger. I do not know if I will ever be in a position to use my skill and ability with a gun for any purpose, but I do not rule out the possibility that it may be for someone I do not know. Just as I know the dangers of a burning building, so too am I aware of the dangers of getting involved in a violent conflict where I am not a primary participant (e.g, defending myself and/or family).

I just pray that in my time of truth, whatever that situation is, that I will do the Right thing.

When you became a firefighter you made a a commitment that you would react in certain situations and take certain risks to protect your communitity. A CHL is doesn't come with any such commitment.

Having served as a firefighter I understand putting ones self on the line. When I joined the fire department and when I took my oath as a soldier I did so to serve my community and nation. When I got my CHL my intention was to protect myself and my family.

This doesn't mean that I wouldn't intervene in any situation, Its just that tying CHL ownership with the whole sheep dog thing seems to encourage vigilantism, and I believe this mindset can set our obligations higher than what we are trained for. It also bugs me to hear my friends and neighbors refered to as sheeple.

TX Rancher · Post by **TX Rancher** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:34 am

Liberty wrote: This doesn't mean that I wouldn't intervene in any situation, Its just that tying CHL ownership with the whole sheep dog thing seems to encourage vigilantism, and I believe this mindset can set our obligations higher than what we are trained for. It also bugs me to hear my friends and neighbors refered to as sheeple.

I absolutely agree with Libertyâ€™s comments. The possession of a CHL is not an obligation to come to the aid of another. It is simply a license to carry a concealed weapon in most public locations. It imparts no special abilities or obligations.

But it does allow you to carry a weapon that could make intervening to aid a fellow human a more viable option.

I too do not like the way â€œsheepleâ€? is bantered around. Often it is used to describe anyone who is not armed. As with most generalizations, itâ€™s wrong much of the timeâ€¦

GlockenHammer wrote:I just pray that in my time of truth, whatever that situation is, that I will do the Right thing.

And in that one sentence is the crux of the problem, what is â€œThe Right Thingâ€??

Is jumping into the fray and putting your existence at risk for a non-family member the right thing? If you are killed, maimed, or mentally impacted by the incident was that the right thing for your family? I think itâ€™s a tough question and has many answers depending on the individual and the situation.

Take for instance the following scenario. You are about to enter the local convenience store to pick something up. Your family is in the car around the side of the building. You notice there is a robbery taking place. The BG grabs the money, vaults over the counter and is heading towards the door you were about to use to enter. As far as you can tell, no one inside the store has been injured. The BG is armed with a 6 inch knife. Do you engage?

Now letâ€™s change it a little. The BG appears to be herding the folks in the store to the back of the store. Do you engage?

Once he gets them to the back of the store he has them kneel facing the wall. Do you engage?

Once they kneel, he slits the throat of the first one and appears to be moving rapidly on to the second victim. You canâ€™t get there in time to save the second one, but you could engage before he gets to the third one. Do you engage?

At no time were you or your family at riskâ€¦your not a copâ€¦and your CHL does not obligate you to intervene. After all, their sheeple arenâ€™t they? If they werenâ€™t, they would have already defended themselvesâ€¦You can turn around and get back in the car with your family, you can stand there and be a good witness, or you can intervene.

Iâ€™m sure most of us would engage after the BG killed the first person. I think many would take action after they saw the BG make them kneel, and some would respond when it was clear the BG was herding them to the back of the store.

Assuming the scenario above, if you hadnâ€™t engaged before the BG killed, would that haunt you?