Motorist Killed After Leading Police On 1 Hour Chase

[WarHawk-AVG]

He is a federal agent...why would he NEED a CHL?

Fishy fishy fishy!

[Mike1951]

Many LEO's in Texas also maintain a CHL.

[dac1842]

The guy had a wife and a fiance, that right there shoots his credibility with me. But let's look at the few facts we THINK we know. He claimed to be CIA, everyone disavows knowledge of him, (sounds like a line from Mission Impossible). His wife thought he was in D.C., he ran from HPD. A law enforcement officer of any kind unless he has gone to the dark side would not run from another officer. When you show your credentials you dont need to be nervous unless of course the credentials are false, you are a criminal hiding behind the credentials or to give the guy some benefit of the doubt you are working deep cover and you realize you just got made.
Regardless again if you are law enforcement you know rule #1 if you are stopped by a fellow officer you keep your hands where they can be seen, you make no sudden moves and identify yourself. When asked for your ID you give it to the officer and announce I am armed. And still do what you are instructed until the officer is comforable with the situation. Not any different that anyone else getting stopped. Nowadays the officer on the street has to be acutely aware that you can go on ebay and buy a badge. A good color printer and you can make an ID card.
The officer who initated the stop was alert and had a good head on his shoulders. He noticed the guy was acting nervous, checks him out and the red flag of a CHL issued to a self proclaimed federal agent raises his eyebrow. And the rest as we know is history.
Who this guy really is will be a questioned for a while. We may never know. He made a deadly decision and paid the price. I doubt seriously he will be buried with Police Honors.

[gregthehand]

Does anyone know for certain yet that he DID present a CHL? I have read a few articles and most now are not saying that he did. Coul dit be that he just showed his Super Secret Squirrel membership card?

[thankGod]

I agree with dac1842. There is something here that is not legitimate. There may be an interesting story behind this.

Again, my thoughts and prayers to his family, and for the officers involved in the shooting.

[Skiprr]

Another updated posted in the Chronicle in the wee hours this morning: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/met ... 48085.html.

There are a few new--or at least fact-tying--items in this one, including:

The patrol officer who stopped Roland Carnaby for speeding Tuesday morning was about to detain him as a possible CIA agent impersonator when he took off in his SUV, Houston police said Thursday.

Two days after officers shot Carnaby to death at the conclusion of a high-speed chase, more details emerged about the bizarre chain of events, including phone calls Carnaby made after he was pulled over.

First Carnaby called an acquaintance in Houston Police Department's internal affairs division, trying to get someone to vouch for him to the patrolman. Later, as he raced away from pursuing officers at speeds up to 120 mph, the man who had for years projected the persona of a federal intelligence officer apparently called a contact he knew in the FBI.

Carnaby initially had thought that by showing an ID card bearing the seal of the Central Intelligence Agency he could be on his way. But the officer who stopped him along Texas 288 near West Orem, already suspicious because of Carnaby's nervous behavior, did not recognize the ID card and told Carnaby he would check it out, HPD homicide Capt. Steve Jett said.

"The officer went back and checked the guy, and when he checked the license, the handgun permit came up and he was like, 'Why does a federal agent need a concealed handgun permit?' " Jett said.

Increasingly suspicious, the officer asked Carnaby for proof of his connection with the CIA.

"He asked him questions like who's your supervisor? Do you have a contact number you can call and verify? And the answers weren't very good," Jett said.

That was when Carnaby called someone he knew at HPD's internal affairs division. The officer asked the acquaintance if Carnaby really worked for the CIA.

"The answer was 'possibly yes,' " Jett said. "But the officer was obviously not inclined to just let him go. He was being very thorough and probably was going to write him a ticket, if not put him in jail for something, probably for not presenting a concealed handgun permit when he was stopped."

State law requires holders of concealed carry permits to present them when stopped by police if they have weapons in the car.

I still don't have much of a comment other than: very strange.

[bdickens]

It's all part of the conspiracy, I tell you.

[G.C.Montgomery]

Many LEO's in Texas also maintain a CHL.

This is true...Its saves them the delay of waiting for the NCICS check when purchasing a firearm. Also, some officers had CHL's prior to federal legislation allowing them to carry off-duty in all 50-states.

[casingpoint]

It's all part of the conspiracy, I tell you.

A sad ending to a long and illustrious career. Killed by a Houston city cop. I can't believe it. Roland Carnaby was my contact man at the CIA when I assassinated JFK in Dallas, and later when I shot RFK in Los Angeles. His money was good, although $5,000 a pop seems a little paltry looking back. I always thought LBJ ordered both hits. I reckon that's a little far fetched for most folks. But Lady Bird sure did make a lot of money off the Vietnam War when hubby ramped it up. Go figure.

[Mike1951]

I'm sorry! I fail to see any humor in this incident, regardless of how it turns out.

[Liberty]

I'm sorry! I fail to see any humor in this incident, regardless of how it turns out.

Strange thing about dark humor.
If we couldn't laugh, all that would be left is tears. I prefer the smiles.

[casingpoint]

Thanks, Liberty. I been up in life, and I been down. And up is better, no matter how bad it gets.

[stevie_d_64]

A very interesting story, and it pretty much IMO does not revolve around his claims of being in the employ of the CIA...

Many people who desire a little excitement in their lives (in this case, and not all people are like this) tend to create these double lives...And in this case it just kinda seems that way...Whether the double life was legitimate in its physical existance or actions is probably (in this case) not very important...

Some people (friends and family) might have been privy to this double life, one of which, being a legitimate, normal and personable presentation in public...Some may have seen and heard him claim these stories and other personal historical tales of CIA "stuff"...

But like some people who may hear this stuff, and may have actually done some of the things he claims to have done, might just simply reply, "Thats a really neat story you got there."

I think this was a very sad outcome to the life of a human being who probably just wanted a little more attention and excitement...And it got a little out of hand...

The fact that the media is playing up his CHL does concern me a bit...

[Paladin]

This looks like it's gonna get ugly for the officers involved:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/hea ... 50824.html

Wife of man who claimed CIA link sues
Federal case says HPD officers who shot, killed Carnaby violated his civil rights


By DALE LEZON
Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle

The wife of a man fatally shot by Houston police and who claimed to be a CIA agent filed a federal lawsuit Friday against the city, accusing the officers of violating his civil rights.

Roland Vincent Carnaby, 52, was killed after he led police on a high-speed chase after a traffic stop Tuesday morning. The CIA has denied that Carnaby was connected to the agency.

The suit, filed in U.S. District Court in Houston, also names Houston Police Department Sgt. Andrew J. Washington and Officer Charles Foster. Both fired at Carnaby.

It states that the officers violated Carnaby's right to protection from unreasonable search and seizure and his right to due process.


Police actions defended
The shooting was unjustified, Randall Kallinen, the attorney for Susan Carnaby, said in a news conference after filing the suit.

HPD spokesman Victor Senties said the department does not comment on pending litigation and directed questions to the city attorney's office.

"I think (the officers) operated the way they should have according to proper police procedures and according to constitutional requirements," said Arturo Michel, Houston city attorney.

Police officials said Washington and Foster fired because they were in fear for their safety.


Excessive force alleged
After the chase ended, Carnaby stopped and was getting out out of his Jeep Commander but refused officers' commands to put his hands in plain sight, officials said. Carnaby then reached under the driver seat and grabbed an object as he began to get out of his car, police said. That's when the officers fired.

"When a person has their back to you, the officer cannot be in reasonable, objective fear for his life," Kallinen said.

Kallinen said Susan Carnaby hopes the suit will make the city change its methods about use of excessive force on suspects. She is also asking for unspecified monetary damages.

Police said the chase started after Carnaby was stopped for speeding along Texas 288.


Hard to verify
The officer who stopped him became suspicious when Carnaby appeared nervous and claimed to be connected to the CIA. Police were trying to determine if Carnaby's claim was true when he sped off.

Officers chased the Jeep north along the South Freeway, with speeds reaching 120 mph, toward downtown Houston and then west on the Katy Freeway. Carnaby then headed south along the West Loop, exiting at Woodway, where the chase ended.

Police said officers would find three weapons in Carnaby's SUV, including two pistols and a pistol-grip shotgun.

Dozens of blog posts refer to Carnaby as a noted intelligence service veteran. The blog posts have been difficult to verify.

Kallinen said that questions surrounding Carnaby's life do not justify his death.


Discipline problems
He also said that the officers who shot him have had several disciplinary problems at the department.

Foster, who has been on the force for about 28 years, has been reprimanded twice for rules violations, according to city records.

City records show that Washington, on the force for about 22 years, has been suspended once for five days for striking a suspect and once for one day for speeding.

He also was suspended for three days for insubordination and violating department rules. That suspension was reduced to one day in arbitration.

[srothstein]

Doesn't ;ppk to get too ugly. I see this as pretty standard lawyer talk and attempts to get money from the city.

He was a fleeing felon (remember that evading arrest in a motor vehicle is a felony itself), stopped, and reached into a car where the officers could not see what he was getting. The officers had every reason to believe he was armed (most CIA agents are).

Case law says police do not have to wait until they can clearly see the weapon, just be able to explain why they felt there was a danger to their life. Remember the NYPD shooting at a guy who reached for his wallet?