Experts Baffled!!??

[hirundo82]

A city ordinance cannot over ride state law... At least that's what I thought.

They can't. Doesn't stop some of them from trying though.

[OldCannon]

It's because of Obama. The evidence is irrefutable.

I believe your comment was in jest. However, I really do think that Obama deserves credit for the recent drop (last couple years).

...

VERY much in jest (tongue was so far in the cheek that I think I bit it twice )

And somebody beat me to posting the "Salesman of the Year" poster

[hirundo82]

It's because of Obama. The evidence is irrefutable.

All the criminals were so full of Hope that they Changed their ways.

[Vecco]

Are San Antonio's local gun laws that bad, and that's why they saw an increase of violent crimes?

Still, I, too, am baffled as to why this occurs.

Can you elaborate? I'm not familiar with what's going on in San Antonio.

SA gun laws are good as far as I know ( same as most of TX).. I live in New Braunfels 20 miles up the I35 and dont know of any " Strange" gun laws in SA.

[srothstein]

Here are a couple of San Antonio's weapons ordinances. Note that the knife ordinance is in a section titled firearms, if that is a hint on how they look at things. I left off the legal ones regulating discharge of a firearm in the city limits.

Sec. 21-153. - Carrying a firearm prohibited; exceptions.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a firearm within the city limits of the City of San Antonio at:
(1) A public park; or
(2) A public meeting of a governmental body; or
(3) A political rally, political parade, or official political meeting; or
(4) A nonfirearms-related school, college, or professional athletic event.
(b) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution for a violation of this provision that:
(1) The firearm is being carried by a certified peace officer; or
(2) The firearm is being carried by a certified security officer in the performance of his employment.

Sec. 21-154. - Possession of or access to firearm by person under seventeen years of age.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person seventeen (17) years of age or older to intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence facilitate,
suffer, or permit the discharge of a firearm by any person under the age of seventeen (17) by allowing that person to obtain unsupervised access
to the firearm.
(b) It shall be unlawful for any person seventeen (17) years of age or older to intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence facilitate,
suffer, or permit the physical possession of a firearm by any person under the age of seventeen (17) by allowing that person to obtain unsupervised
access to the firearm.
(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under subsections (a) and (b) that:
(1) The firearm was possessed or discharged at a firing range or an area designated for target practice and was possessed or discharged under
the supervision of any person seventeen (17) years of age or older; or
(2) The access to the firearm was obtained as a result of the commission of a crime; or
(3) The possession or discharge of the firearm was justified under the provisions of Chapter 9 of the Texas Penal Code; or
(4) Reasonable precautions under the attendant circumstances were taken to prevent unsupervised access to the firearm by any person under
the age of seventeen (17).

Sec. 21-155. - Possession of knife.
It shall be unlawful for any person under the age of seventeen (17) to possess or carry any knife on a public roadway or public right-of-way;
on any other property in which a governmental entity has an interest; or on private property without the permission of the owner or the person
in control of the property within the city limits of the City of San Antonio.

Sec. 21-156. - Possession of firearm restricted.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person under the age of seventeen (17) to carry a firearm on a public roadway or public right-of-way; on any
other property in which a governmental entity has an interest; or on private property without the permission of the owner or person in control
of the property within the city limits of the City of San Antonio.
(b) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution for a violation of this provision that: The firearm is being carried at a firing range or an area
designated for target practice.
(c) Law enforcement officers authorized to enforce this article are hereby authorized to seize any firearms in the possession of any person
under the age of seventeen (17) in the city limits of the City of San Antonio where there is probable cause to believe said firearms are being
or will be used in the commission of a crime or where they pose a danger to said persons or others. The firearms shall be held by the San
Antonio Police Department and released only to an adult who can demonstrate ownership. This provision will serve to prevent those under
the age of seventeen from harming themselves or others. Firearms not claimed within ninety (90) days shall be destroyed.
(d) A letter shall be sent by the Department of Community Initiatives to the parent(s) or guardian(s) of any person charged under this section
advising of the charge and asking for their cooperation in better supervising the child.

Sec. 21-157. - Carrying of weapons, including concealed handguns, on city-owned premises prohibited; posting of notice.
(a) It is the intent of the city council to prohibit any person other than a commissioned security officer employed by the city and licensed peace
officers from carrying or possessing weapons including concealed handguns on city-owned premises, including city-owned buildings, parking
garages, lots, and other parking areas but excluding city-owned or operated public parks, streets and sidewalks.
(b) It is the intent of the city council that the term weapon shall include a firearm, handgun, club, illegal knife, knife, and any prohibited weapon
listed in Texas Penal Code Section 46.05(a) and have the same meaning as said items are defined in Section 46.01, Texas Penal Code.
(c) The city council directs the city manager, or his designee to post the appropriate signs and such other notice, in accordance with Section
30.05 of the Texas Penal Code (the Criminal Trespass Law), to carry out the city council's above-stated intent.
(d) The city manager is authorized to take all steps reasonable and necessary to deny entry or continued presence on city-owned premises to
all such persons possessing weapons including concealed handguns, including prosecution of such violators for the offense of criminal trespass.

[bigred90gt]

Here are a couple of San Antonio's weapons ordinances. Note that the knife ordinance is in a section titled firearms, if that is a hint on how they look at things. I left off the legal ones regulating discharge of a firearm in the city limits.

Sec. 21-153. - Carrying a firearm prohibited; exceptions.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a firearm within the city limits of the City of San Antonio at:
(1) A public park; or
(2) A public meeting of a governmental body; or
(3) A political rally, political parade, or official political meeting; or
(4) A nonfirearms-related school, college, or professional athletic event.
(b) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution for a violation of this provision that:
(1) The firearm is being carried by a certified peace officer; or
(2) The firearm is being carried by a certified security officer in the performance of his employment.

Sec. 21-154. - Possession of or access to firearm by person under seventeen years of age.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person seventeen (17) years of age or older to intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence facilitate,
suffer, or permit the discharge of a firearm by any person under the age of seventeen (17) by allowing that person to obtain unsupervised access
to the firearm.
(b) It shall be unlawful for any person seventeen (17) years of age or older to intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence facilitate,
suffer, or permit the physical possession of a firearm by any person under the age of seventeen (17) by allowing that person to obtain unsupervised
access to the firearm.
(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under subsections (a) and (b) that:
(1) The firearm was possessed or discharged at a firing range or an area designated for target practice and was possessed or discharged under
the supervision of any person seventeen (17) years of age or older; or
(2) The access to the firearm was obtained as a result of the commission of a crime; or
(3) The possession or discharge of the firearm was justified under the provisions of Chapter 9 of the Texas Penal Code; or
(4) Reasonable precautions under the attendant circumstances were taken to prevent unsupervised access to the firearm by any person under
the age of seventeen (17).

Sec. 21-155. - Possession of knife.
It shall be unlawful for any person under the age of seventeen (17) to possess or carry any knife on a public roadway or public right-of-way;
on any other property in which a governmental entity has an interest; or on private property without the permission of the owner or the person
in control of the property within the city limits of the City of San Antonio.

Sec. 21-156. - Possession of firearm restricted.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person under the age of seventeen (17) to carry a firearm on a public roadway or public right-of-way; on any
other property in which a governmental entity has an interest; or on private property without the permission of the owner or person in control
of the property within the city limits of the City of San Antonio.
(b) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution for a violation of this provision that: The firearm is being carried at a firing range or an area
designated for target practice.
(c) Law enforcement officers authorized to enforce this article are hereby authorized to seize any firearms in the possession of any person
under the age of seventeen (17) in the city limits of the City of San Antonio where there is probable cause to believe said firearms are being
or will be used in the commission of a crime or where they pose a danger to said persons or others. The firearms shall be held by the San
Antonio Police Department and released only to an adult who can demonstrate ownership. This provision will serve to prevent those under
the age of seventeen from harming themselves or others. Firearms not claimed within ninety (90) days shall be destroyed.
(d) A letter shall be sent by the Department of Community Initiatives to the parent(s) or guardian(s) of any person charged under this section
advising of the charge and asking for their cooperation in better supervising the child.

Sec. 21-157. - Carrying of weapons, including concealed handguns, on city-owned premises prohibited; posting of notice.
(a) It is the intent of the city council to prohibit any person other than a commissioned security officer employed by the city and licensed peace
officers from carrying or possessing weapons including concealed handguns on city-owned premises, including city-owned buildings, parking
garages, lots, and other parking areas but excluding city-owned or operated public parks, streets and sidewalks.
(b) It is the intent of the city council that the term weapon shall include a firearm, handgun, club, illegal knife, knife, and any prohibited weapon
listed in Texas Penal Code Section 46.05(a) and have the same meaning as said items are defined in Section 46.01, Texas Penal Code.
(c) The city council directs the city manager, or his designee to post the appropriate signs and such other notice, in accordance with Section
30.05 of the Texas Penal Code (the Criminal Trespass Law), to carry out the city council's above-stated intent.
(d) The city manager is authorized to take all steps reasonable and necessary to deny entry or continued presence on city-owned premises to
all such persons possessing weapons including concealed handguns, including prosecution of such violators for the offense of criminal trespass.

21-154 (a)(1) and (a)(3) are unenforceable as it is contrary to state law. The other sections are covered in the CHL laws.

21-154, 21-155, and 21-156 do not apply to CHL holders, as the law is for those under 17.

21-157 is also unenforceable as it is also contrary to state law.

These are my opinions anyway., If I am wrong, someone please correct me.

[paulhailes]

I find it interesting that there is a popular foreign policy theory that states the more weapons there are the safer it is. The idea is aggressive actors will attack states/people who are weaker and unable to defend themselves so an increase in arms means less states/people will be unable to defend themselves. Aggressive actors will resort to violence to get what they want no matter what, in our case if they don't have guns they will use knives, or some other just as deadly weapon. So in my opinion the more armed law abiding citizens the better.

[philip964]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/24/us/24crime.htm

Im sure some of you guys can come up with a few reasons why crime has been down since the early 90s

It's pretty simple, actually.

As John Lott has observed: More guns, less crime.

This is generally true IF those weapons are in the hands of law abiding citizens. Unfortunately, there are TWO "gun cultures" in America. One that owns uses firearms (LAWFULLY)...(for various reasons) and then...those that use them (UNLAWFULLY) to commit crimes.

Of those two, the media....most often covers stories related to the illegal use of a firearm (or some other tragic event/accident). When was the last time you saw the responsible use of a firearm aired on television?

The truth is....society is slowly being conditioned to believe that: Guns= Bad!

It is an educational process that we are losing!

I agree, in the paper recently here in Houston, we have had the triple whammie of the gun going off in an elementary school injuring three, a child shooting himself dead at a repair garage, when he got a gun out of a desk drawer and the poor woman who was shot by the dropped derringer in a restaurant. She has been all over the news as she is just now being released from the hospital, permanently disabled.

What's up with SA, drug gangs from Mexico?

[Lonest4r]

I agree with gigag, correlation is not necessarily causation. Read freakonomics by Steven Levitt